# Shup up wiith the "shut up" already **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 7, 2018, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485 "2018-07-07T19:21:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/121 "2018-07-10T21:51:37Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Not going to do a long lecture since y’all hate those. But, **expecto** , dude. You just said that people deserve to be beat up for their speech. You once again use my admission of a mental illness as a way to attack me, erroneously assuming I’ve been a shut in most of my life, and then acting like that means I can’t have an opinion on things and should defer to my “betters.” > > I am trying to fix my own faults, but surely y’all can give me a pass for finding that bullshit disgusting. I am a human being. Treat me like the other human beings on this board. **If I’m wrong, prove me wrong!** If you want to call me names while you do it, fine. But all garbage like this does is make me think your complaints are bullshit. That’s why I don’t tend to “take complaints about my posting under advisement.” > > Just like telling me “shut up” makes me think of you [like this](https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/fingers-in-ears-gif-1.gif). BigT, bro. The fuck I did. My point was that there’s a difference between what we wish would happen, or what would happen in an ideal world, versus what we can reasonably expect will happen, and acting accordingly. Surely you can see the distinction. To use another analogy, should I, as a female, have to worry about walking alone after dark because I could be the victim of a violent crime? Not in an ideal world, but that’s not where we live, so I’m certainly going to take basic steps to protect myself. If I walk down a particular road and get attacked multiple times, I might consider a change in route. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/122 "2018-07-10T21:54:32Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > First, it’s almost certainly best not to post an answer to **F-P** ’s question in post #117. Even if you manage an illuminating answer, you’re responding, as _the target_ of group animosity, to a request that you explain the animosity and the way it is manifested. That’s a recipe for further animosity and continued manifestations. Remember the [Ackbar Admonition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_Ackbar#%22It's_a_trap!%22). Personally I think the targets of these types of attacks should never respond defensively. The only defense is a good offense, in such situations. (“Never complain, never explain”.) As a strategic move, even what BigT has said already is a losing gambit, IMO. But if he doesn’t want to respond to the question, it’s at least something he should think about. In post #116, BigT expresses an interest in modifying his posting style in response to what he’s been told is alienating other posters. But he then goes on in the next paragraph to cast doubt on whether in fact that’s really the source of his issues. If that’s really the case, then the contemplated modifications are not going to resolve his issues here, and he might need to think of another approach. Or, possibly, consider that his assessment of how his posting style compares to that of other posters might be biased and inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/123 "2018-07-10T22:23:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > On the other hand, I will now take LHOD’s claim that I come on too strong and don’t (appear to) consider the other side under advisement. Granted, I’ve tried taking advice before, and it didn’t work, but LHOD is decent folk and seems to be trying to help. Glad you’ll try it, sincerely. If I can make a couple of points: 1. This is a big one. If someone is talking about how there are social structures stacked against them due to some aspect of their identity (black, female, trans, gay, what have you), and you don’t share that aspect of their identity, and you disagree with them, _there’s not much chance you’re going to educate anyone with your disagreement_. Listening to folks talk about their experiences is going to be far more valuable. You may disagree with their conclusions, but your conversational input will most usefully consist of sincere questions, not telling them how they’re wrong. Even if they are. But they might not be, and you might just think they are because you didn’t ask them sincere questions to help you understand. > [@BigT](#): > > **If I’m wrong, prove me wrong!** If you want to call me names while you do it, fine. But all garbage like this does is make me think your complaints are bullshit. 1. If someone posts garbage at you, that doesn’t mean their complaints are garbage, that means THEY are garbage. People can post the most repellent shit in favor of valid positions; recognize that that makes them, not the position, repellent. It’s real easy to assume that their personal shittiness makes their position wrong. It doesn’t. 2. Proving you wrong isn’t necessarily what it’s about. It really comes across sometimes as your staking out a position without recognizing your own incomplete data set. Stake out fewer positions, and when you do stake them out, look for flaws in them yourself, and if you can’t find them, hedge your bets anyway. The number of positions that you need to stake out strongly is a lot smaller than you might think. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/124 "2018-07-10T23:03:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Also: in my nearly 20 years here, I don’t think I’ve once seen someone use “butthurt” and not be an asshole. > > Coincidence? > [@Sneering progressives are driving young white men into the arms of the GOP](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sneering-progressives-are-driving-young-white-men-into-the-arms-of-the-gop/813566/171): > > For a third thing, nobody has demonstrated that a statistically significant number of white males are so **butthurt** by such broad brushes that they’ll vote for Trump out of spite–much less the insane 20 point swing that Slacker can’t help but believe in. Bolding mine, obviously, and I think those two quotes speak for themselves. Moving on … > [@BigT](#): > > You once again use my admission of a mental illness as a way to attack me, erroneously assuming I’ve been a shut in most of my life, and then acting like that means I can’t have an opinion on things and should defer to my “betters.” I certainly don’t think I’m your better. I’ve also been involuntarily committed twice, so I’d have to be a real hypocritical asswipe to shame someone for mental health problems. So my beef with you has nothing to do with those things, clear? It has to do with the fact that you appear to think that **you are better than us.** As **xenophon41** wisely pointed out, you don’t lecture peers, you lecture underlings. Stop treating everyone on this board as a lesser to you and accept that you do not have the standing to preach at us and give us fucking lectures, and I’ll wager you’ll get a lot less people telling you to shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/125 "2018-07-10T23:09:34Z")
**Big T** you and I have been in agreement once or twice. I’ve also bitched at you a couple-three times. So, you can value what I say as much or little as you like. That bunch from “the other board?” They are a coterie of venomous, mendacious parasites. Their leading members, if you want you waste lifespan you’ll never get back reading their posts, seldom post on any other topic than to talk about other posters. From time to time they get meta and talk about all the good times they had in the past talking about other posters. They aren’t worth the fluid leaking from an anal fistula. Disregard them. You know what, though? Disregard **LHoD** , too. You don’t need to please him or try to be like him, either. Say what you have to say and say it how you want to say it. Neither the good nor the bad opinion of the denizens of this board will change your life in any meaningful way. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/126 "2018-07-10T23:12:14Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > Bolding mine, obviously, and I think those two quotes speak for themselves. Moving on … Never denied that sometimes I can be an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/127 "2018-07-10T23:27:50Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > BigT, bro. The fuck I did. My point was that there’s a difference between what we wish would happen, or what would happen in an ideal world, versus what we can reasonably expect will happen, and acting accordingly. Surely you can see the distinction. To use another analogy, should I, as a female, have to worry about walking alone after dark because I could be the victim of a violent crime? Not in an ideal world, but that’s not where we live, so I’m certainly going to take basic steps to protect myself. If I walk down a particular road and get attacked multiple times, I might consider a change in route. If I were making an analogy to my own behavior, and I was comparing myself or my friends to a person who assaults women for walking alone, I think that would give me pause. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/128 "2018-07-10T23:38:27Z")
If that’s what you choose to take away from my post, have at it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/129 "2018-07-10T23:40:28Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > On the other hand, I will now take LHOD’s claim that I come on too strong and don’t (appear to) consider the other side under advisement. Granted, I’ve tried taking advice before, and it didn’t work, but LHOD is decent folk and seems to be trying to help. > > Though I do note that I’m not the only one who posts like that, but I’m the one that gets singled out. Again, that’s part of the reason I have a hard time taking advice on the situation. Hey, I rarely agree with you, but I think you should just be you. Don’t change based on what some people on a message board say. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/130 "2018-07-10T23:47:20Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > If that’s what you choose to take away from my post, have at it. I’m willing to take something else from your post. I can’t be easy with what you appear to be saying, so I’d be delighted to be misreading it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/131 "2018-07-11T00:06:48Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Go have intimate relations with the largest saguaro you can find. … Well first of all my wife is prickly enough for me. Second of all, she’d be none too pleased with me looking for intimate relations elsewhere. And anyone who knows us knows I fear her and why. And last of all, a cactus is not capable of giving enthusiastic and explicit consent … so it’s out anyway. So your suggestion for my intimate life is duly noted but declined. Thanks anyway though! > [@expectopatronum](#): > > \ … If someone walks into a biker bar and yells out, I don’t fucking know, something that would piss off a bunch of bikers, he’d get his ass kicked, and it would be his own stupid fault. Same thing here. I’ve known bikers, and you are no biker. Seriously, I’ve known bikers … and the ones I’ve known are sweethearts. Sure they may look scary at first glance but really nice decent folk. Read to their kids and everything. I think you’ve watched too much _Sons of Anarchy_ or something. The bikers I know would not beat up someone for being annoying or easily resort to violence if pissed. Even if people look at them and think they would. I have not known biker bars but this place aint one. Even here in the Pit we have alleged tough guys pearl clutching because I implied someone was dog shit. (And she is not. If I saw I was about to step on _dog shit_ I’d try to stop myself. :)) But let’s imagine that stereotype populated bar and say a black and white gay couple walks in there holding hands and talking about their wedding plans and are beaten up severely by a handful of the bikers. Should the other bikers, the ones I know, just look away and say, well what were those two thinking, of course they deserve that beating, the beatin’ bikers are completely right to do that? When the cops interview the one not in a coma should they tell them, “well, y’all had it coming. Charges? Ha.”? And maybe give a kick? Let’s go with a more realistic scenario that this is more like. Biff is explaining to the principal: “Charlie is really really annoying. Everyone thinks so! He just talks and doesn’t listen to what anyone else says, just prattles on about one specific video game, gets too close when he talks, and has a weird laugh. We’ve told him he is too! Of course me and my buds call him names and knock his lunch tray to the floor. He’s very annoying!” “Oh! He’s very annoying! Well then it’s fine! Please, carry on Biff!” And any students who say that Biff and buds are not being cool? Goddam white knights. Everyone! Point and laugh! Trying to argue how annoying or obnoxious someone is, so therefore repetitive aggressive harassment of the unable to really defend himself individual by a group of others is OKAY!, is even more idiotic when those involved are adults. Except it crosses from mere idiocy into the pathetic and contemptible. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/132 "2018-07-11T00:24:04Z")
When the fuck did I say I was comparing myself to a biker? I was making a point about the internet in general. You all seem to be thinking I was referring specifically to Giraffe Boards. If I was I would’ve just said that. Fine, change the biker bar to fan of Sports Team A goes to a home game of Sports Team B (Team A’s biggest rival), sits in the home section, and starts talking shit about the home team. They’d at the very least be told to shut the fuck up, and they should have seen it coming. Is that better? You guys sure like to focus on irrelevant details sometimes. Oh, and you can fuck off with trying to bring gay/race bashing into the equation. That has nothing to do with the point I was making. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/133 "2018-07-11T00:40:36Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > Fine, change the biker bar to fan of Sports Team A goes to a home game of Sports Team B (Team A’s biggest rival), sits in the home section, and starts talking shit about the home team. They’d at the very least be told to shut the fuck up, and they should have seen it coming. … This analogy doesn’t fit the situation discussed in this thread. To make it fit, add that the Sports Team B fans follow S.T.A-Fan around everywhere he goes, and repeatedly tell him to Shut Up–then, each time, high-five each other in self-righteous and smug group solidarity. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/134 "2018-07-11T01:08:30Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > … You all seem to be thinking I was referring specifically to Giraffe Boards. … \… the point I was making. To be clear. I for one do not all think you were talking about any other place than this board. I gather that another board is where some of these jerks hang together to obsess over how horrible this place is and its posters are. If that is what they experience as fun, more power to 'em (sad as that may be). I am only concerned about assholish behavior _here_. The point you were trying to make was clear, just stupid. Someone coming into this board and being annoying is apparently asking for it, should know it is not a safe place to come off as lecturing others, and deserves to be aggressively and repetitively harassed by multiple posters, especially if the victim does not have the power to defend themselves well. And btw, many posters here HAVE lectured me about medicine. And they have not always been wrong. Okay, usually wrong, but not being wrong has happened. The ways in which your analogy fails have been explained. What issues do you have with my Biff analogy? In what ways do you think it does not fit this circumstance? ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/135 "2018-07-11T01:18:13Z")
In what way are you not a finger-wagging, holier than thou douchecanoe? Geez, no wonder you stick up for BigT. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/136 "2018-07-11T01:18:32Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > When the fuck did I say I was comparing myself to a biker? I was making a point about the internet in general. I thought you were making a point about Dopers attacking BigT, and those attacks being his fault. ---
**Author:** ![expectopatronum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/expectopatronum/32/173_2.png) [@expectopatronum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/expectopatronum)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/137 "2018-07-11T01:25:09Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > I thought you were making a point about Dopers attacking BigT, and those attacks being his fault. Yeah, I’m not going to go back and forth with you either, bro. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/138 "2018-07-11T01:29:41Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > Yeah, I’m not going to go back and forth with you either, bro. Okey dokey. I don’t know you, so I don’t know if you are among those who drop the “shut up, BigTard” into threads. If you are, and if the best analogies for your behavior you can come up with are those in which people are being physically assaulted for speaking or for walking alone, maybe that’s a sign that you don’t think very highly of your own behavior. If in an ideal world he would not be attacked that way, then it’s appropriate to castigate those who do and, if we are among them, to try to stop. We can’t get to an ideal world, but we can stop doing the things we think are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/139 "2018-07-11T01:40:13Z")
> [@expectopatronum](#): > > In what way are you not a finger-wagging, holier than thou douchecanoe? Geez, no wonder you stick up for BigT. Well holier than these “thou” is a _really_ low bar. But thanks for playing! Sorry no consolation prizes today. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2018, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485/140 "2018-07-11T01:54:16Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > I don’t know you, so I don’t know if you are among those who drop the “shut up, BigTard” into threads. [She is](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20654073#post20654073). She tends to be one of the posters I agree with on most issues but think is a raving asshole anyway, most of the time–but that’s just my impression. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shup-up-wiith-the-shut-up-already/817485.md?page=8)