# Shut the fuck up George! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 2, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281 "2008-12-02T02:01:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/141 "2008-12-03T20:49:21Z")
Stop it! Can we please talk about something other than how Bill Clinton used his elephant qoque? WHAT? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/142 "2008-12-03T21:07:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And besides, there are those of us who think that if Clinton hadn’t maneuvered his dick (and cigar) into the orifices of an impressionable young intern in the first place, there would have been nothing for Ken Starr to latch onto. Exactly. **Nothing.** Though Starr started out trying to find something to pin on Bill in connection with Whitewater, and looked under every single rock between Whitewater and Monica’s dress with a microscope, **that was the best he could come up with.** Makes Bill look, in hindsight, like the squeaky-cleanest POTUS since Carter. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/143 "2008-12-04T03:41:07Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > You would be wrong about that, actually, I’m very rarely ‘caught out’ on a cite call. 99.9% of the cite calls I get around here are deliberately obfuscatory, pertain to subjective subjects with no concrete, provable answer, and are almost invariably intended to derail points that my opponents seem unable or unwilling to derail honestly. By your own definition, you are absolutely correct. In your own mind, any call for a citation that you cannot or will not provide is, _ipso facto_, “obfuscatory” or “intended to derail.” Your mendacity knows absolutely no bounds. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/144 "2008-12-04T12:26:25Z")
> [@](#): > > I originally brought up Clinton’s lies as an illustration of the dishonesty that so thoroughly permeates his character. The quickest and easiest way to do that while allowing the least room for inevitable partisan denials was to mention lies that everyone knows he told and can’t refute. The purpose was to point out to mhendo that just because the Clinton administration denies to the 9/11 Commission that the Sudanese offered bin Laden, it in no way means that it is telling the truth. He lied under oath re the Lewinski affair; he lied to everyone about Genifer Flowers (and he’s on tape telling her to lie about their affair as well), and he shook his finger in our face and lied to us about how he didn’t have 'sexyul relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinski. G.W. Bush, meanwhile, being a veritable bastion of truth telling and rigorous morality could not have lied to us about Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them to all points in the free world on five minutes notice while plying dominoes with Bin Laden. And, for your edification, the word is spelled sexual and not sexyul; it is hard to take seriously a person who cannot spell the word sexual correctly. And, let me point out to you, if that Flowers person walked into any bar I’ve ever seen, the “pushover” alarm would have rung loud and long the instant she passed through the door. I doubt anyone could have looked at her and doubted for one instant that she wasn’t Miss Free and Easy eternally and forever. And, just for the record, I’m fair sick of your idiotic and disgusting habit of constantly blaming Clinton for original sin and all that followed after. You are obsessive on the subject and I’m sick of it. In short, I think you are totally insane and I dislike you and your immediate family. I probably wouldn’t like your house pets either. I would greatly appreciate it if you would simply bite yourself very hard and succumb to the rabies that I know you carry within you. In summation, fuck you very much and now, please, fuck the fuck off to wherever in the god damned hell people like you fuck the fuck off to and try to do so as expeditiously as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/145 "2008-12-04T12:36:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Still, you seem more puffed than usual here, and so I can only conclude I must be scoring points. Don’t worry; you’d be mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/146 "2008-12-04T12:45:20Z")
Good grief! Clinton’s still being talked about here? ---
**Author:** ![FarmerChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FarmerChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FarmerChick)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/147 "2008-12-04T13:29:58Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > It’s not that Powell actively participated in a cover-up of My Lai, it’s that he was in a position to investigate the massacre, and expose it, and didn’t. His involvement with Brig. Gen. John W. Donaldson, accused by the Army of murdering unarmed civilians while flying over Quang Ngai province, is much more questionable. > > Just to start you off,The decades after “Hey, it’s war, shit happens” rationalization is trumped by the “Some of my best friends are Vietnamese, therefor the My Lai Massacre didn’t happen” in it’s sliminess. > More detailed accounts in David Corn’s [article](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20010514/corn20010502) for The Nation, and here, [Behind Colin Powell’s Legend by Robert Parry & Norman Solomon](http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Political/Collin%20Powell_Legend.html). Something really stomach turning [here](http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/colin3.html) (a short version of the Parry & Solomon piece)… ugggg… How disappointing. Thank you very much for the info. That loud crash is Powell falling off his pedestal. How silly of me to admire anyone associated with politics :mad: ---
**Author:** ![grey\_ideas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@grey\_ideas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grey_ideas)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/148 "2008-12-04T14:10:57Z")
**Starving Artist** , I do think you are an eloquent poster who can come up with some hellishly good arguments but sometimes you do come out with some real interesting ones… In post 52 you said; > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The OP brought up Clinton’s blow job (and …ahem… by extension, his dick). I merely responded to it. Let’s compare that with the earlier posts, in post 25 you said; > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Well, we all know Bill Clinton (“I did not have sexyul relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinski…Well, it depends on what the meaning of is, is”) and his lackeys are as good as their word, don’t well? and in post 28 **Equipoise** said; > [@Equipoise](#): > > Plus, Bill Clinton got a blow job! Now are we going to have to get you to define what you mean by “sexyul relations” in your post? Are you saying that you did not mean exactly what **Equipoise** mentioned in post 28? What IS your definition of “sexyul relations” when set up as a quote from Clinton about Ms. Lewinski? I’m curious, perhaps I missed some news somewhere and it’s got nothing at all to do with a blow job. If, as you state, you just wanted to illustrate Clinton’s endemic dishonesty (whether or not it exists) then why did you include that comment at all? Why not something along the lines of, “Well, we all know Bill Clinton (through a series of well documented events) was not entirely honest”? I think saying that **Equipoise** “brought up” Clinton’s blow job is…well, dishonest and nearly as deserving of scorn as your mockery of Clinton’s definition of “is”. - yeah, I realise I’ve continued the derailment of the thread and apologies to the OP for that ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/149 "2008-12-04T15:35:12Z")
I wonder why going after Clinton is always the first option in the “Defending Bush” playbook. Didn’t Carter, Kennedy, LBJ, Truman, FDR, etc. ever fuck anything up? ETA: **grey ideas** , I don’t know who the hell you are, but I like you. Well, your post, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/150 "2008-12-04T19:57:05Z")
The “But Clinton got a blow job!” argument is such a potent weapon that I wonder if the left will have any equivalent for defending the Obama presidency. **Critic** : I believe that Obama’s new policy to replace the American flag with the hammer and sickle is distasteful. **Lefty** : But Bush endorsed torture! Hmm…or **Lefty** : But Bush lied us into war! or **Lefty** : But Bush drove us into a historically catastrophic recession! or **Lefty** : But Bush couldn’t say “nuclear” properly! Hrm…there’s so much to choose from, and yet nothing quite has the panache of “Clinton got a blow job”. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/151 "2008-12-04T20:01:03Z")
“Bush blew his own job” ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/152 "2008-12-04T20:42:38Z")
> [@Yumblie](#): > > Hrm…there’s so much to choose from, and yet nothing quite has the panache of “Clinton got a blow job”. “Mission accomplished.” ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/153 "2008-12-04T21:13:45Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] And even more to the point, if he was that powerfully constrained, why was Bush not also? [/QUOTE] Because Bush didn’t give a shit, and didn’t even think about _trying_ to do anything about bin Laden. Sending in the CIA to Afghanistan was not the only option. There were [several other warnings](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,54290,00.html) closer to 9/11 that had nothing to do with Clinton, including the efforts of [Coleen Rowley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleen_Rowley), the FBI agent who tried to [sound an alarm](http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/rowley.html) about Zacarias Moussaoui taking flying lessons but not caring about learning how to land. She was pretty much told by her superiors to STFU (technical term). There are so many other instances, such as > [@](#): > > Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said in a New York Times interview for Tuesday editions that his country’s intelligence service warned U.S. officials about a week before the Sept. 11 attacks that Al Qaeda was in the advance stages of an attack on an unspecified American target. even though > [@](#): > > The Times quoted a senior U.S. intelligence official, however, as denying any such information was passed on to the CIA. The White House press office declined comment when contacted. There was so much CYA going on after 9/11 it’s hard to know who to believe. In any case, there WERE warning signs that could have been followed up on. I have little doubt that if Clarke had still been there, if Gore had been in the White House, those warnings would have been taken seriously. Whether 9/11 could have been prevented, or scaled down, we’ll never know, but it did NOT come out of nowhere, totally unexpected, surprise surprise, and no matter what Clinton did or didn’t do, it was BUSH’S responsibility to keep his people on top of intelligence and take everything seriously. That didn’t happen. Thank you **crowmanyclouds** for your response to FarmerChick. I found it interesting too. [QUOTE=FarmerChick] ugggg… How disappointing. Thank you very much for the info. That loud crash is Powell falling off his pedestal. How silly of me to admire anyone associated with politics [/QUOTE] I think, for now and the forseeable future, you can admire Barak Obama. Howard Dean’s another good one. In general, but not without exceptions often having to do with not sticking to masturbation (see: Bill Clinton, Elliot Spitzer, John Edwards), you can look to Democrats for people to admire and find quite a few. See, even Starving Artist admits that, aside from a weakness for sex, Clinton was a clean president. As pointed out by BrainGlutton… [QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [QUOTE=Starving Artist] And besides, there are those of us who think that if Clinton hadn’t maneuvered his dick (and cigar) into the orifices of an impressionable young intern in the first place, **there would have been nothing for Ken Starr to latch onto.** [/QUOTE] Exactly. Nothing. Though Starr started out trying to find something to pin on Bill in connection with Whitewater, and looked under every single rock between Whitewater and Monica’s dress with a microscope, that was the best he could come up with. Makes Bill look, in hindsight, like the squeaky-cleanest POTUS since Carter. [/QUOTE] > [@LouisB](#): > > And, just for the record, I’m fair sick of your idiotic and disgusting habit of constantly blaming Clinton for original sin and all that followed after. You are obsessive on the subject and I’m sick of it. In short, I think you are totally insane and I dislike you and your immediate family. I probably wouldn’t like your house pets either. I would greatly appreciate it if you would simply bite yourself very hard and succumb to the rabies that I know you carry within you. In summation, fuck you very much and now, please, fuck the fuck off to wherever in the god damned hell people like you fuck the fuck off to and try to do so as expeditiously as possible. Poetry man, poetry. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/154 "2008-12-04T21:15:50Z")
> [@](#): > > “I wish the intelligence had been different, I guess,” Bush tells ABC’s Charlie Gibson in an interview to be broadcast tonight Don’t we all George, don’t we all. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/155 "2008-12-04T21:24:06Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Poetry man, poetry. As someone who doesn’t have anything against **Starving Artist** particularly, I would prefer to say: _if your entire argument begins and ends with “but Clinton got a blow job” then you will change the minds of only those few who hadn’t heard. If you cannot find any arguments besides “Clinton got a blow job” then perhaps you made up your own mind too quickly._ ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/156 "2008-12-04T21:27:20Z")
Well that’s good too, but as Starving Artist will never EVER change his mind, **LouisB’s** sentiments were much more satisfying to read. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/157 "2008-12-04T22:38:59Z")
You know why Starving Artist–and his kind–constantly bring up Clinton’s blowjob? Because it works. Look at this thread. All he had to do was complain about Clinton’s blow job and doggedly keep complaining, and all y’all can’t resist the bait. And so instead of a thread about Bush and whether Bush is a pile of shit and how big that pile is and what the shit smells like, rather we have a thread about Clinton and whether Clinton was a pile of shit and how big that pile was what it smelled like. Starving Artist is arguing rings around you dolts. Not because his arguments are convincing or cogent, but because he’s succeeded in changing the terms of the debate into a defense of Bill Clinton’s record. Good work guys. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/158 "2008-12-04T22:46:47Z")
Heck, “Bush is a piece of shit” hasn’t been much of a debate for years now. We talk with **Starving Artist** because his tap-dancing amuses us. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/159 "2008-12-04T23:19:44Z")
Yes, but if this debate were on a talk show, or even just a party people would have walked away laughing at\*\* SA’s \*\*argument. Which makes no sense. (his argument not the walking away or laughing. Thats perfect sense) You’re right though…Bush being a piece of shit and most likely the worst president in history is easy to see for everyone that is not a rightwing loonie. Its as obvious as the sun crossing the sky or the fact that Michael Jackson is kind of strange. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281/160 "2008-12-04T23:22:40Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > Michael Jackson is kind of strange. Cite? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shut-the-fuck-up-george/475281.md?page=9)