# Shuttle Columbia MIA? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 1, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091 "2003-02-01T14:19:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Tiburon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e36b37/32.png) [@Tiburon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tiburon)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/81 "2003-02-01T18:23:41Z")
Whoa. And so close to the 17th anniversary. ☹ A sad day for the US and NASA. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/82 "2003-02-01T18:23:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JohnT \* > \*\*CNN is reporting that pieces of the Shuttle are impacting the Dallas area. Somebody (I was in the kitchen so I might’ve misheard) said that the speed upon atmospheric re-entry was 6 times higher than it should’ve been… \*\* No, it was 6 times the speed of sound. I didn’t get the impression that it was going faster than it was supposed to be at that point. ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/83 "2003-02-01T18:51:42Z")
FUCK. ☹ ☹ ☹ ☹ ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/84 "2003-02-01T18:52:41Z")
Fuck. Just FUCK. I second the motion for a do over for the whole damned centuary. Fuck. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/85 "2003-02-01T19:01:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > \*\*Damnit. The shuttles should have been retired five years ago. We should be on a new model by now. > > Better. Faster. Safer. Larger. > > … And now all we have is something to put on the memorial wall. \*\* Um, no. The Columbia was _just_ past _one quarter_ her design life. ‘Newer design simply for the sake of newer design’ is poor policy. As long as the suttles are up to the job, there’s zero need to scrap them. And every flight they take amortizes and spreads their enourmous cost further, while allowing time to design something that would be a _worthwhile_ replacement. Age is almost certainly not the cause. Freak happenstance is much more likely, based upon the (very limited) evidence available. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/86 "2003-02-01T19:22:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by squeegee \* > \*\*I’m waiting for the first asshat ‘psychic’ to claim they predicted this. \*\* They won’t, because none of them have ever predicted anything accurately. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/87 "2003-02-01T19:42:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by squeegee \* > \*\*Countdown until we hear about the first asshat who will be caught grabbing some debris as a souvenir. :mad: \*\* [fark.com](http://fark.com) was reporting that some jackass had already put up a piece of debris on ebay. It’s been removed now. I just heard a talking head say something along the lines that the astronauts are, in his mind, kind of a balance to all the evil and sickness inherent in our species. Well put. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/88 "2003-02-01T20:00:19Z")
The Space Program is one of the few and rare endeavours that _any_ country has taken part in (the motivation of ICBM research aside) that is completely beneficial for everyone on the planet… this makes it all the more tragic. Especially when asshats say they are glad it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/89 "2003-02-01T20:23:49Z")
This does suck, truly. Challenger comparisons are inevitable for those of us who remember the Challenger disaster. I could be mistaken, but I get the impression that this mission was (like the Challenger) watched more intently than usual by many schoolchildren. I know it’s a minor deal comparatively, but I keep thinking about all the experiments that were lost. The ants with their crazy zero-G tunnelling, historic experiments with fireballs, a giant tumor I think … all being observed and cataloged (and in some cases planned) by schoolkids. Sad too for Israel to have lost her first astronaut. (As when the first teacher in space was lost in 1986.) I want to express thanks and gratitude to the 7 crewmembers. This is a cliche, but they made the ultimate sacrifice for the sake of the rest of us. They knew the risks going into the mission, and were happy to take them. This was a noble death. God rest their souls. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/90 "2003-02-01T20:52:58Z")
Well. Damn. Count me in among those who really hope that this doesn’t turn popular opinion against further space exploration. Damn. Damn damn damn fuckitty-shit-damn. Damn. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/91 "2003-02-01T20:58:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Smeghead \* > **[fark.com](http://fark.com) was reporting that some jackass had already put up a piece of debris on ebay. It’s been removed now.** Right after I found out, I said to Robin that some ass would do that very thing.I checked, but there was nothing to that point. [Proof](http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&krd=1&from=R8&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=space+shuttle+debris) that there are some truly sick people in the world. The actual item was eliminated, but some jerk put some debris up for auction, sure as hell. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/92 "2003-02-01T23:05:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*No, it was 6 times the speed of sound. I didn’t get the impression that it was going faster than it was supposed to be at that point. \*\* I mentioned this in another thread, but CNN never could decide what the speed was. They were saying it was going “12,500 MILES, or Mach 6.” It was actually 12,500 MPH, which corresponds to about Mach 17-18. This was the speed it should have been going at this stage of the descent. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/93 "2003-02-01T23:13:46Z")
I think it was going at about MAch 18 when it exploded, but Mach 6 on impact with the earth…I have no idea if this makes sense in terms of physics, but that might explain the two numbers that people have been hearing. FTR, I’ve heard Mach 18 repeatedly as the speed at the time of the explosion. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/94 "2003-02-01T23:27:22Z")
Just for clarification. The crank call was a ‘howard stern crank’, wherein people call in to tragedies and mention Howard Stern. This person said the debris was “BabaBooey’s Metal Teeth”, an injoke for listeners of the show. It really made me sick. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/95 "2003-02-02T00:55:10Z")
Tranquilis, it’s not so much that the shuttles were old, themselves. It’s that they’re a 1960s design made with 1970s technology. If Challenger hadn’t stopped the program, and if the X-33 hadn’t been a tailheavy boondoggle, we’d be using something better by now. And I mean in all ways better: More efficient, safer, more durable, improved construction, and more cargo capacity, not to mention cheaper to fly. That it happened to be Columbia, the first to fly, was a historical tragedy… she deserved to wind up in a museum someday. But it was not an age of airframe issue: We’ve got B-52s flying today that are decades old. The real question is… how can you slow down reentry? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Frink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Mr.Frink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Frink)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/96 "2003-02-02T01:54:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*Personally, I hope that the authorities shoot on sight anyone attempting to loot the debris. \*\* With a tragedy such as this, emotions are running hot. But that’s no excuse to make an ignorant comment like this. I hope you’re not serious. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/97 "2003-02-02T03:10:16Z")
Challenger exploded on my college friend Mara’s birthday. Columbia exploded on my college friend Cathy’s birthday. Just a weird observation. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/98 "2003-02-02T03:16:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NoClueBoy \* > \*\*By the way, I’m pretty pissed at that guy they interviewed from Corsicana, TX on CBS News. \*\* Why; what did he say? ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/99 "2003-02-02T06:12:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > **It’s that they’re a 1960s design made with 1970s technology.** That’s really beside the point. They’re more than up to the job, no need to scrap them just to put something else in their place, same as with the BUFFs. Today’s disaster was bound to happen sooner or later. Sorry to sound fatalistic, but when you put something man-made, no matter _how_ new and fancy, into a flight regime like that, sooner or later, things are going to Go Wrong. Flushing bucks down the drain isn’t going to change that, and to date _every_ new, improved, fancy-shmancy new design has run up against one insurmountable problem: They’re _way_ more expensive to design and build that the existing system, and offer no substantial improvements, despite all the hype associated with them. > [@](#): > > \*\*The real question is… how can you slow down reentry? \*\* And the answer is: You can’t. Not and have the object be reusable. You could make more one-shot capsules, I suppose, but that kinda defeats the whole purpose. When the shuttle hits the atmosphere, it’s doing about mach 25. The air is _thin_ up there, and the heat buildup is limited by that thinness. The shuttle slowly scrubs speed whilst still in the thin air so that by the time it finally hits _thick_ air, it’s going slow enough that the extra friction from the heavier air doesn’t burn the shuttle up like a matchhead. It’s simply physics meets practicality, and considering the mission, that’s what you’ve got. And always _will_ have, as long as you have a winged shuttle. The _ **real** _ question is what went wrong, and how can it be prevented? ---
**Author:** ![Jeu\_D\_esprit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@Jeu\_D\_esprit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeu_D_esprit)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091/100 "2003-02-02T08:05:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tranquilis \* > \*\* > The Columbia was _just_ past _one quarter_ her design life. \*\* Her design life was 80 some years? I didn’t know that. Seems kind of long to me. I know that B-52s are fairly old frames, but I don’t think every one of their flights rides as close to the edge of their design limitations as shuttle flights do. No matter how well they’re designed, isn’t the strain on the basic frame much more in the space program? I don’t know… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tranquilis \* > \*\*Age is almost certainly not the cause. Freak happenstance is much more likely, based upon the (very limited) evidence available. \*\* Or a critical failure made catastrophic by a variety of minor (and acceptable) material/frame problems caused by sheer use and strain from the age of the frame. My cynical mind is turning in circles about a series of minimum safety checks passed with no review board saying: “Excuse me, but there seems to be a preponderance of ‘minimum acceptables’ here. Stop it.” But it is late; I have brooded over it when I don’t have any real information. I could be driving myself toward conclusions that don’t exist and have no proof. My heart goes out to the suffering families and friends. And may a peroxide enema go to any bastard who may have fulfilled my paranoid fantasy and killed that crew by doing the LEAST they could do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shuttle-columbia-mia/152091.md?page=6)