# Sibling rivalry at its finest **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 23, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359 "2009-12-23T19:45:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/81 "2009-12-28T19:36:50Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > If a girl wants to get laid all she needs is a pulse and a vagina? > > How sexist is that? Not only against women, but men as well–equal opportunity sexism. :rolleyes: The guys I’ve known have had a choice when it comes to sex and there have been plenty of women who have been turned down upon offering themselves to a guy, myself (back in the day when I was single) included. > > I highly doubt that most guys just want to rut blindly, no matter who propositions them. > > I think that both men and women can be sluts, but it is more condemned in women. Thought experiment: get a reasonably attractive male, and a reasonably attractive female. Have them approach random strangers of the opposite sex and ask them for no-strings sex. What will the female’s success rate be? What will the male’s success rate be? It’s not sexism to observe that men have, in general, greater upper-body strength than women do, and this observation is not negated by the many female weight-lifters you might personally know. Equally, it’s not sexism to observe that when it comes to random propositions for anonymous sex, women will be much more successful seeking it from men than men will with women. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/82 "2009-12-28T19:52:32Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Right, because everyone in this thread has been castigating her for wanting sex, as opposed to, I don’t know, making up some weird-ass written catalogue of the exact specific sex acts she is willing to perform or permit based on how cool, hot or in need of a haircut the object of her desires might be. I just don’t see why she needs to be castigated or taken down a peg at all. > [@Bricker](#): > > Thought experiment: get a reasonably attractive male, and a reasonably attractive female. Have them approach random strangers of the opposite sex and ask them for no-strings sex. > > What will the female’s success rate be? What will the male’s success rate be? > > It’s not sexism to observe that men have, in general, greater upper-body strength than women do, and this observation is not negated by the many female weight-lifters you might personally know. > > Equally, it’s not sexism to observe that when it comes to random propositions for anonymous sex, women will be much more successful seeking it from men than men will with women. That isn’t sexist. What is sexist is to say that if a woman decides that she’ll have a lot of sex because she can that she’s slutty for giving in so easily. If men really have a problem with women giving in to sex so easily, they can just as readily just put the brakes on and not be willing to capitulate themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/83 "2009-12-28T19:55:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Thought experiment: get a reasonably attractive male, and a reasonably attractive female. Have them approach random strangers of the opposite sex and ask them for no-strings sex. Attitudes of a random selection notwithstanding, there will always be enough low-hanging fruit to go around. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/84 "2009-12-28T19:57:55Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > That isn’t sexist. What is sexist is to say that if a woman decides that she’ll have a lot of sex because she can that she’s slutty for giving in so easily. If men really have a problem with women giving in to sex so easily, they can just as readily just put the brakes on and not be willing to capitulate themselves. Sure. However, I would be just as grossed out by a guy who kept an oral-sex list as a girl. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/85 "2009-12-28T20:03:40Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > That isn’t sexist. What is sexist is to say that if a woman decides that she’ll have a lot of sex because she can that she’s slutty for giving in so easily. If men really have a problem with women giving in to sex so easily, they can just as readily just put the brakes on and not be willing to capitulate themselves. Perhaps – it depends on what you view as the proper roles for men and women. Because men and women are different, a person can believe that they should respond differently without being internally inconsistent. Note that this doesn’t mean they’re right, or that their logic can withstand any scrutiny at all; it simply means that having a double standard is not something ruled out by nature. In any event, my comment was made merely to refute **Eleanor Rigby** ’s. I take no position on the broader aspects of the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/86 "2009-12-28T20:16:03Z")
Got it: sexually enthusiastic women are oppressed in our society. Argument; large empty space; barge pole; Slithy Tove, in that order. Whereas, if a teenage boy had a list of girls, with acts he planned on doing to them, posted online, what could the reaction be? a. “Go stud, go!” b. “Dream on, loser.” c. “We demand to know what is being done to protect our children from this predator!” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/87 "2009-12-28T20:20:17Z")
d. “Man, his sister is a total fucking bitch!” ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/88 "2009-12-28T20:21:43Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > This thread has been hanging around a week and I just now clicked read the girl’s supposed “to do” list. > > I don’t think it’s necessarily clear that the girl was utterly serious. I think it could be a young girl’s fantasy and, as exposed as kids are now to the intricacies of sex, could actually be about as harmless as a list of Boys I Like. She mentions one boy she might give her “v-card” to. It could be that she has very little sexual experience and found it titillating to list the boys that she’d like to screw … > > Maybe? This was my take as well. People here seem to be acting like this is her “Boys I’ve Done” list when it seems to include elements of a wish-list as well. Who hasn’t mentally made a list of desired lovers and thought about what they’d like to do with them? Her big mistake isn’t that she wants more than one guy, it’s that she put it down on paper in an unsecured location. Although the dates she puts by some of the entries seem to indicate a somewhat serious ambition. That said, I wish I’d been in a position to make such a list when I was a teen. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/89 "2009-12-28T20:30:17Z")
Did they not have paper when you were growing up? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/90 "2009-12-28T20:36:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Did they not have paper when you were growing up? 😉 You can’t hide a cave wall. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/91 "2009-12-28T20:51:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Thought experiment: get a reasonably attractive male, and a reasonably attractive female. Have them approach random strangers of the opposite sex and ask them for no-strings sex. > > What will the female’s success rate be? What will the male’s success rate be? > > It’s not sexism to observe that men have, in general, greater upper-body strength than women do, and this observation is not negated by the many female weight-lifters you might personally know. > > Equally, it’s not sexism to observe that when it comes to random propositions for anonymous sex, women will be much more successful seeking it from men than men will with women. Has anybody actually performed this thought experiment? Or are you merely asking us: [QUOTE=Dramatic reënactment of a Bricker conversation] Imagine the following situation. And then imagine that what I said earlier came true. Therefore I am right. Q.E.D. [/QUOTE] Hmmmmm… :-/ ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/92 "2009-12-28T20:55:19Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > This was my take as well. People here seem to be acting like this is her “Boys I’ve Done” list when it seems to include elements of a wish-list as well. Who hasn’t mentally made a list of desired lovers and thought about what they’d like to do with them? Her big mistake isn’t that she wants more than one guy, it’s that she put it down on paper in an unsecured location. Although the dates she puts by some of the entries seem to indicate a somewhat serious ambition. > > That said, I wish I’d been in a position to make such a list when I was a teen. Sigh. Heh. So do I, **Hypno-Toad** , so dALL GLORY TO THE HYPNO-TOAD. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/93 "2009-12-28T21:03:09Z")
All this time I didn’t know _reenactment_ had an umlaut in it. Or on it, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/94 "2009-12-28T21:09:02Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Has anybody actually performed this thought experiment? Or are you merely asking us: > > Hmmmmm… :-/ I think someone did–I remember learning about it in psychology class in college. > [@Bricker](#): > > Perhaps – it depends on what you view as the proper roles for men and women. Because men and women are different, a person can believe that they should respond differently without being internally inconsistent. > > Note that this doesn’t mean they’re right, or that their logic can withstand any scrutiny at all; it simply means that having a double standard is not something ruled out by nature. > > In any event, my comment was made merely to refute **Eleanor Rigby** ’s. I take no position on the broader aspects of the debate. Sure, but since we’re aware of why the double standard exists, why do we have to adhere to it? I just don’t see why we can’t just have proper roles for human beings. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/95 "2009-12-28T22:10:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > All this time I didn’t know _reenactment_ had an umlaut in it. Or on it, I suppose. It’s a [diaresis](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/diaeresis). ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/96 "2009-12-28T22:39:04Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > It’s a [diaresis](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/diaeresis). One of the things I love about the dope is that NO thread is safe from becoming a thread about grammar and punctuation. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/97 "2009-12-28T22:53:28Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > One of the things I love about the dope is that NO thread is safe from becoming a thread about grammar and punctuation. [Accidence](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/accidence) will happen… ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/98 "2009-12-28T23:16:04Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Has anybody actually performed this thought experiment? Or are you merely asking us: One would hope the experiment could be broadened a bit to include number of orgasms achieved with said anonymous partners. Agree with everything **phouka** said. Everyone’s on-board with sexual liberation and against playing games and wondering why their girlfriend has all these hang-ups, but ‘slut’ is still a go-to slur for girls and women (from other girls and women, though whether they take the cue from boys is up for debate). And what incredible bull about it being because women can find sexual partners more easily. Really? So all those girls pining away for boys who didn’t like them back in high school were delusional? Or does it just have to be sex with _any_one, in which case boys can get it, too, if only they’d lower their standards as well. And by this logic, women who can cum easily with a partner should get a slut-free pass, since theirs is such a rare situation. And obese or ‘conventionally’ unattractive women who manage to get laid a lot. And handsome men who have always had luck with women should be labeled sluts. And yet no one seems to be hating on George Clooney. Anyway, it’s a shame for everyone. Boys who don’t want to fuck everything that moves and girls who do. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/99 "2009-12-28T23:33:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > d. “Man, his sister is a total fucking bitch!” Yes, exactly. I don’t understand the necessity for a gender war here. I think it’s a sad commentary on the growing narcissism and aggressive retaliation that was discussed recently in some other thread. (Short summary: we have evidence that young people are becoming more narcissistic and more aggressive, with the aggressive behavior intensifying particularly in cases where they feel they have been wronged.) What’s troubling about this situation is that a kid did a stupid thing, his brat sister tattled on him in true brat sister fashion, and rather than acknowledging that he was the dumbass hoarding beer, he blamed a) his parents and b) his sister. Then he committed an act of aggression vastly disproportional to the perceived wrong. His actions will have ramifications for his sister that can’t even begin to compare to the way her action affected his life. And he thinks he is totally justified in his response. This is problematic, and also, I think, emblematic of a new social reality. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/100 "2009-12-28T23:50:24Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > See, this attitude also kind of bugs me. Why do we still have the notion of a “fallen woman” because someone who’s female has the audacity to want sex? I don’t think she’s fallen at all. What I meant, and I can see how I wasn’t clear, was that teenagers are cruel mofos and if she is, in fact, engaging in those sorts of behaviors, it will get around quickly enough and she’ll destroy her reputation all on her own. If she’s not and it’s just a silly list then her reputation is destroyed without her having any fun. Either way, her brother’s a dick and a loser. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359.md?page=6)