# Sibling rivalry at its finest **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 23, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359 "2009-12-23T19:45:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/101 "2009-12-29T05:15:58Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Thank God there was no Facebook when I was young. That’s exactly my reaction. And yes, I had a list. ---
**Author:** ![torie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@torie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/torie)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/102 "2009-12-29T05:56:15Z")
> [@Crawlspace](#): > > But it would be alright to sexually humiliate a young man? Of course not. A young man wasn’t the subject of the OP, however. **Olives** , sometimes I worry that this narcissism in society is only going to get worse, judging by the crap I see on mommy boards where I post. There’s a large contingent of mothers out there who see motherhood as a total self sacrifice, where any action taken on the part of the mother to gain a crumb of time, resources, or identity for herself is seen as a selfish act that robs the child. We have a whole generation of now toddlers being raised to be the utter center of their worlds, where all things are oriented specifically for them and them alone. This is all assuming that the sample of women I read are indicative of most mothers, which may not be the case. I worry all the same. ---
**Author:** ![Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a9a28c/32.png) [@Oslo\_Ostragoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oslo_Ostragoth)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/103 "2009-12-29T06:08:40Z")
The thing that bugs me the most is that the list feels like it is written by a 14-year-old. Anybody else get this vibe, or am I hopelessly out of touch? ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/104 "2009-12-29T13:06:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Did they not have paper when you were growing up? 😉 I was busy drawing explosions and dinosaurs. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/105 "2009-12-29T13:25:14Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Has anybody actually performed this thought experiment? Yes, actually, someone has. > [@](#): > > Or are you merely asking us: > Hmmmmm… :-/ No. Or maybe yes. Who knows what this portion of your post even means? If it means that I’m imagining I’m correct merely because my proposed experiment didn’t actually happen, and it’s therefore premature to conclude that it would support my thesis, then… whew. That was a close one. Luckily, the actual experiment’s results were in line with my suggestion, which does not seem to me to be much of a surprise. Perhaps you are agog at the revelation. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/106 "2009-12-29T13:28:36Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Sure, but since we’re aware of why the double standard exists, why do we have to adhere to it? I just don’t see why we can’t just have proper roles for human beings. I sure don’t know. Actually, I don’t even know if “proper” roles for human beings means that there are no differences in the expression of sex drive between men and women. Perhaps the current differences are entirely “proper.” I’m not sure how one would even show that a particular set of standards was “proper” and another set “improper.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/107 "2009-12-29T15:05:16Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, actually, someone has. > > No. Or maybe yes. Who knows what this portion of your post even means? > > If it means that I’m imagining I’m correct merely because my proposed experiment didn’t actually happen, and it’s therefore premature to conclude that it would support my thesis, then… whew. That was a close one. Luckily, the actual experiment’s results were in line with my suggestion, which does not seem to me to be much of a surprise. Perhaps you are agog at the revelation. Well, why not cite this actual experiment, rather than merely inviting us to assume you’re right? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/108 "2009-12-29T15:32:03Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Well, why not cite this actual experiment, rather than merely inviting us to assume you’re right? You want someone to cite a _thought experiment_? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/109 "2009-12-29T15:46:04Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > You want someone to cite a _thought experiment_? No, I want someone to cite the _actual experiment_, which we are assured exists, and whose results we are further assured would support **Bricker** ’s conclusion. I mean, c’mon, smartest, hippest message board on all the internets: you can’t tart up your wild speculations merely by saying “Thought Experiment: Imagine what I just said is true.” Or do people really not grasp that all **Bricker** did above was repeat his assertion, merely prefacing it with the words “Thought Experiment,” and that this does not provide any more support for the original claim? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/110 "2009-12-29T15:53:08Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > No, I want someone to cite the _actual experiment_ Then ask for that. You asked if anyone had performed the thought experiment, then when you were told someone had, you asked for a cite. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/111 "2009-12-29T15:55:53Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Then ask for that. You asked if anyone had performed the thought experiment, then when you were told someone had, you asked for a cite. Yeah, well, when you perform a thought experiment it becomes an actual experiment, rather than just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/112 "2009-12-29T16:00:54Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Yeah, well, when you perform a thought experiment it becomes an actual experiment, rather than just a thought. It does? So, if I perform a thought experiment about making gunpowder in my living room, I could blow something up? That’s way cool. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/113 "2009-12-29T16:01:31Z")
Yeah, **Bricker**. Shame on you for not calling it subjunctive reasoning! > [@](#): > > It does? So, if I perform a thought experiment about making gunpowder in my living room, I could blow something up? A thought experiment isn’t an experiment based on thought. It is an idea for an actual experiment. If you _perform_ a thought experiment, it’s not a thought experiment anymore; it’s an _experiment_. You are talking about creating or proposing a thought experiment, not performing one. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/114 "2009-12-29T16:10:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > A thought experiment isn’t an experiment based on thought. It is an idea for an actual experiment. If you _perform_ a thought experiment, it’s not a thought experiment anymore; it’s an _experiment_. The term _thought experiment_, according to [my dictionary](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gedankenexperiment), is English for the German _Gedankenexperiment_, which is defined as > [@mw.com](#): > > an experiment carried out in thought only Like Schrodinger’s cat, the example given at Wikipedia, which also has this to say: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Given the structure of the proposed experiment, it may or may not be possible to actually perform the experiment and, in the case that it is possible for the experiment to be performed, there may be no intention of any kind to actually perform the experiment in question. The common goal of a thought experiment is to explore the potential consequences of the principle in question. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/115 "2009-12-29T16:10:55Z")
Ugh, fuck this pedantic bullshit. Everyone could just stop being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse, and we could have an actual conversation instead of arguing over what a goddamn thought experiment is. What he was asking was, did anyone actually do this. Someone said yes. He asked for proof. “Proof that I thought about it, hyuck?” Hilarious, let’s move on. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/116 "2009-12-29T16:21:36Z")
The actual [experiment](http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/Top/experiments/P10/) dates from 1978. Item #18. Knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/117 "2009-12-29T16:24:17Z")
Right. The young lady is disturbingly promiscuous and a little too blase about her sexual conduct, an attitude that will get her into trouble in short order if she’s not careful. The young man is a major dickhead and worthy of much scorn. The parents must be so proud. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/118 "2009-12-29T16:25:30Z")
But I don’t see why being very promiscuous=disturbing. Like, what the boy did strikes me as worse because it was malicious and intended to hurt. What was so bad about what she did? She made a list. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/119 "2009-12-29T16:26:47Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > The actual [experiment](http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/Top/experiments/P10/) dates from 1978. Item #18. Knock yourself out. Thank you, **Malacandra**. As to the value of thought experiments, this is from the link above: > [@](#): > > The only way to find out, he figured, was to actually get out there and see what would happen. I do wonder if sexual attitudes have not changed in the past thirty years. My _speculation_ would be that they have, but not by so much that the rates of acceptance would be equal or even near-equal, but a probably not-negligible number of women might, nowadays, say yes. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359/120 "2009-12-29T16:38:37Z")
There was a thread here some time ago where we basically did the same thing, using a hypothetical attractive-but-not-hot person. I can’t find the thread but something like two thirds of the single guys said yes and one third of the single girls. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sibling-rivalry-at-its-finest/522359.md?page=7)