# Sicherman dice besides d6 **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 3, 2001, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sicherman-dice-besides-d6/96533 "2001-12-03T01:08:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![23skidoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/f04885/32.png) [@23skidoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/23skidoo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sicherman-dice-besides-d6/96533/1 "2001-12-03T01:08:42Z")
Sicherman dice are dice that have a different numbering than “standard dice”, but still have the same probability of rolling each sum. Six-sided Sicherman dice are numbered 1-3-4-5-6-8 and 1-2-2-3-3-4. I’m trying to find the numberings for a Sicherman d4. I found [this](http://www.mathnerds.com/best/crazydice/solution.asp) site that could yield the answer, but the math is beyond me. #1: Can anyone work through the math and tell me the numberings for a pair of Sicherman d4? #2: Is there any sided-dice which does not have a Sicherman contrast? ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sicherman-dice-besides-d6/96533/2 "2001-12-03T01:19:26Z")
Hmm? I think I’m missing your point here. You’re talking about “sums”. Sums on a dice require OPPOSITE sides. And a D4 doesn’t have any, does it? ---
**Author:** ![23skidoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/f04885/32.png) [@23skidoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/23skidoo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sicherman-dice-besides-d6/96533/3 "2001-12-03T01:32:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fishcheer15 \* > \*\*Hmm? > > I think I’m missing your point here. You’re talking about “sums”. Sums on a dice require OPPOSITE sides. > > And a D4 doesn’t have any, does it? \*\* Sums refers to adding the numbers on the two dice together. The numbers need not be opposite each other to be added together. Roll a 3 and a 2, the sum is 5. If you have never seen how a d4 is numbered, look [here.](http://www.multimania.com/arjan/num04.htm) ---
**Author:** ![FortMarcy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9de053/32.png) [@FortMarcy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FortMarcy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sicherman-dice-besides-d6/96533/4 "2001-12-03T02:14:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 23skidoo \* > #1: Can anyone work through the math and tell me the numberings for a pair of Sicherman d4? 1-2-2-3, 1-3-3-5 > [@](#): > > #2: Is there any sided-dice which does not have a Sicherman contrast? Don’t know. But I can’t think of any reason why there wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![catmandu42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ab097/32.png) [@catmandu42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catmandu42)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sicherman-dice-besides-d6/96533/5 "2001-12-03T02:19:22Z")
Oww… That site makes my head hurt. ---
**Author:** ![23skidoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/f04885/32.png) [@23skidoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/23skidoo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2001, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sicherman-dice-besides-d6/96533/6 "2001-12-03T05:08:21Z")
Thanks, Fort. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Manlob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Manlob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manlob)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2001, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sicherman-dice-besides-d6/96533/7 "2001-12-04T02:08:06Z")
Don’t know the requirements on the numbering, but if you subtract the same number from every face of one die and add the same number to every face of the other die it will work. For example, for 5-sided dice and choosing to subtract and add one: 0,1,2,3,4 and 2,3,4,5,6 If you require that all numbers be positive integers, then it is possible for every number of sides except prime numbers and 1 (anyone ever used 1-sided dice? I guess they are more commonly called marbles.). So it can’t be done for 1,2,3,5,7,…, but since 9 is not prime: 1,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,5 and 1,4,4,7,7,7,10,10,13