# Sick and tired of bicyclists ignoring traffic law **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 13, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413 "2013-07-13T18:14:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/141 "2013-07-16T22:46:17Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Just curious, is anyone who starts these tired threads or participates in the pile-ons a bicyclist, runner, or pedestrian? Because it seems there’s a certain type who hates on the non-fossil fuel burning forms of motivation and that type isn’t likely to go outdoors for exercise. I am a habitual pedestrian. Bicyclists suck. They ignore signs and lights (and people in crosswalks). Or they ride on the sidewalk instead of the street like they’re supposed to. Not all of them, sure, but enough of them to make me wish I could clothesline the bastards without getting arrested for assault. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/142 "2013-07-16T22:51:48Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Nah, my bike is mostly aluminum and chromoly and cost the environment far more than your walking kicks. You’re the true Greeney here, colander. I bow down to your humble mode of transport. Thanks for all you do for the trees, squirrels, and whathaveyou. You know what, **Troppus**? You are totally right that I have been an obnoxious, holier-than-thou self-righteous hipster water baby in this thread about my chosen method of transportation. I’m super embarassed about that now. Remember back on page 2, when I said > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **colander** > Since everyone on foot is traveling with fewer distractions, contributing less pollution and the use of fossil fuels as well as getting a fair amount of exercise that probably offsets exorbitant insurance costs of obesity related illnesses, they kinda have the right to be a little sanctimonious. Boy, what a crank-yanking tool that made me sound like! Saying that because I enjoy the occasional use of a non-motorized mode of transportation, I should get _carte blanche_ to lord it over everyone who doesn’t! Pretty much the only way I could possibly seem like more of a brainless hypocrite would be if I later admitted that in addition to utilizing a self-powered transport method, I also actually _do_ drive regularly! Perhaps my insurmountable wangitude would amazingly become even more dick-punchingly tiresome if I then stated that although I will resolutely refuse to believe any other driver ever who claims that they always practice responsible driving habits, everyone else should definitely believe me when I say that of course _I_ always do! Wouldn’t that just have been the bloody dingleberry atop the bilious diarrhetic sundae that was my participation in this thread? Oh, wait, **Troppus**. It turns out that I actually didn’t do, say or imply any of those things. But then who did? _ **MAIBY IT WAS… A GHOSTS!?** _ ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/143 "2013-07-16T23:00:21Z")
> [@colander](#): > > _ **MAIBY IT WAS… A GHOSTS!?** _ You’re so cute. But I hope you have a glass of wine and a warm bath now and then, because I’m a little worried that you’ll blow a valve and leave us too soon. Maybe a long walk would help? ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/144 "2013-07-16T23:20:28Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > You mean while automobile drivers careen down the highway while texting, slapping toddlers, stuffing face and playing Words With Friends? Okay, sure, cyclists should follow all the rules of the road while automobile drivers multitask as though they are solo in a mobile living room and driving is a mere second thought. > > Each individual should operate his or her vehicle of choice in a manner which protects himself and other drivers from accident and injury. **Blowing through an unobstructed intersection against a red light is a far lesser danger than drifting into other lanes while hurtling down the road at 65 MPH in a two ton vehicle while perusing your BFF’s pics of his Cancun vacay.** I guess I don’t understand how the way that automobile drivers do things somehow justifies the behavior of the group of cyclists the OP is pitting. I mean, what’s the connection? Or is this just more sanctimony? ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/145 "2013-07-16T23:38:57Z")
> [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](#): > > I guess I don’t understand how the way that automobile drivers do things somehow justifies the behavior of the group of cyclists the OP is pitting. > > I mean, what’s the connection? Or is this just more sanctimony? It’s a study of misplaced ire. The cyclist haters are furious because they saw a few cyclists blow through an intersection, but they’d be angrier if the same bikes held them up and made them late. The same people start pit threads about cyclist infractions, but make no mention of careless and distracted drivers of two ton automobiles. Why is that? It’s because they are guilty of the same dangerous driving habits which can maim or kill, and because they can’t see everything that is happening in the cab of a moving car. There are far more distracted automobile drivers than inconsiderate and reckless bicycle riders, but the cyclists catch more shit. You tell me why, and which class of driver it is more reasonable to fear and be pissed at? ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/146 "2013-07-16T23:48:00Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > It’s a study of misplaced ire. The cyclist haters are furious because they saw a few cyclists blow through an intersection, but they’d be angrier if the same bikes held them up and made them late. The same people start pit threads about cyclist infractions, but make no mention of careless and distracted drivers of two ton automobiles. Why is that? > > It’s because they are guilty of the same dangerous driving habits which can maim or kill, and because they can’t see everything that is happening in the cab of a moving car. There are far more distracted automobile drivers than inconsiderate and reckless bicycle riders, but the cyclists catch more shit. You tell me why, and which class of driver it is more reasonable to fear and be pissed at? Are you really not getting the big picture here? Your reply here is the same spew you’ve posted multiple times already. At this point you’re just being obtuse. NO ONE is saying that there are not horrible drivers. I had a jackhole in a Mustang this morning who insisted on trying to share my lane at the same time/same place as my motorcycle. Guess what, that didn’t entitle me to run the next red light I came to. I see horrible drivers everyday. Start a thread pitting them, I’ll join you there. This is not that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/147 "2013-07-17T02:10:36Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Are you really not getting the big picture here? Your reply here is the same spew you’ve posted multiple times already. At this point you’re just being obtuse. > > NO ONE is saying that there are not horrible drivers. I had a jackhole in a Mustang this morning who insisted on trying to share my lane at the same time/same place as my motorcycle. Guess what, that didn’t entitle me to run the next red light I came to. > > I see horrible drivers everyday. Start a thread pitting them, I’ll join you there. This is not that thread. Sorry, but you simply cannot separate the issues that easily. When drivers say they want cyclists to obey the laws of the road - the take actions in the field that belie that sentiment (such as honking at cyclists waiting at red lights, tailgating cyclists when the light turns green, and other aggressive actions) the issues are then linked. While doubtless some cyclists are doing illegal things simply because they are being dickholes, a lot of them think they are being safer by getting away from aggressive and incompetent drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/148 "2013-07-17T11:58:38Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > I haven’t seen a single person in this thread argue that bicycles don’t have equal rights to the roads, or that bikes are bad, or even that most cyclists are bad. Didn’t read the OP I see. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/149 "2013-07-17T12:23:11Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Sorry, but you simply cannot separate the issues that easily. When drivers say they want cyclists to obey the laws of the road - the take actions in the field that belie that sentiment (such as honking at cyclists waiting at red lights, tailgating cyclists when the light turns green, and other aggressive actions) the issues are then linked. If those were always, or even usually, the exact same people, then you would have a point. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/150 "2013-07-17T13:51:34Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > If those were always, or even usually, the exact same people, then you would have a point. Wrong again. leftfield wants to separate the issues. I point out that they are in fact linked. If A causes B, then you cannot complain about B without at least acknowledging that A is part of the problem. And once again I just love how cyclists are considered to be responsible for all their fellow cyclist’s behavior while drivers are totally independent of each other. Gotta love it. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/151 "2013-07-17T16:11:42Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Wrong again. > > leftfield wants to separate the issues. I point out that they are in fact linked. If A causes B, then you cannot complain about B without at least acknowledging that A is part of the problem. But you are being just as dogmatic in insisting that A **always** causes B, that B would not exist without A. You seem to imply that cyclists who break the law are only doing so to flee from aggressive or inattentive drivers. Horseshit sir, horseshit. > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > And once again I just love how cyclists are considered to be responsible for all their fellow cyclist’s behavior while drivers are totally independent of each other. Gotta love it. Nope, never did that. I’m asking the posters in this thread, cyclists who have admitted, in this thread, to not following traffic laws, and who have defended the actions of others, to accept that you are part of the problem, and to come down off of your high horse. Or high saddle, whatever. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/152 "2013-07-17T16:25:42Z")
The reasons I see cyclists break law and common sense are not because of “traffic flow”. You don’t refuse to yield to pedestrians in cross walks when there are no cars behind you, or ride on the sidewalk, or go the wrong way down a one way street, or ride at night without lights to avoid inconveniencing drivers. And you absolutely do not ride a god damn fixie if you are concerned with how quickly you can accelerate from a stop light. You do it so you can do track stands because putting your foot on the ground wouldn’t look as cool. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/153 "2013-07-17T16:39:56Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > But you are being just as dogmatic in insisting that A **always** causes B, that B would not exist without A. You seem to imply that cyclists who break the law are only doing so to flee from aggressive or inattentive drivers. Horseshit sir, horseshit. No, I never said that. In fact I said otherwise: > [@](#): > > While doubtless some cyclists are doing illegal things simply because they are being dickholes, a lot of them think they are being safer by getting away from aggressive and incompetent drivers. QED. I’d still say that fear of cars is a large cause for many cyclists, however. > [@](#): > > Nope, never did that. I’m asking the posters in this thread, cyclists who have admitted, in this thread, to not following traffic laws, and who have defended the actions of others, to accept that you are part of the problem, and to come down off of your high horse. Or high saddle, whatever. When you state: "If those were always, or even usually, the exact same people, then you would have a point. " This implies some separation between drivers posting here and the ones being threatening to those trying to follow the law. Why is this important? Because you get to handwave away responsibility by saying ‘those were other drivers’ while we are trying to explain one of the major causes of the problem. If you ignore the causes while attaching blame you are also the cause of the problem. Meanwhile, cyclists get nailed with the broad brush all the time. Just look at the title of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![NotBob13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19b73/32.png) [@NotBob13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotBob13)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/154 "2013-07-17T16:43:01Z")
Pardon the interruption. > [@Stoid](#): > > I don’t know about Nashville, but in Los Angeles,\ > There are times when it is simply to dangerous to share the street with cars, > Now if only the people who ware walking directly towards us, looking directly at my dog on my left/their right could just engage their brains and realize that I am trending left to give them room on my right, _ **the side with no big black dog** _, and move to their left instead of farther and farther and farther right…l\ People tend to pass on your left, because we do that here in America. Your so called “super-safe” dog harness, puts your dog in danger if you are on the street where vehicles should be, and causes people to have to rearrange the side of pedestrian traffic where they are walking. I’d hate to see you try and navigate a side walk with fairly heavy traffic flow, as this would entail you on your left, traffic towards you on the right and then every one else going the same direction as you on the extreme right. I’m not sure you deserve the self awarded title “safety-girl”. I am curious if the harness would go to the right. Thank you. Everybody now may resume arguing over who deserves to be first against the wall when the revolution comes, cars or bikes. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/155 "2013-07-17T17:33:57Z")
Mr Miskatonic, you and I are just not going to get to the same point here. I truly don’t hate on cyclists. I know it would be more convenient to think that, since it is easier to just demonize anyone who disagrees with you. I am courteous to cyclist, and ave never once done any of the evil nasty things mentioned above, like crowding, honking, throwing things at, etc. At the same time, I think cyclists, or perhaps (arguably) a small subset of cyclists, are their own worst enemy. This percentage (and I’ve accepted that you and I will never agree on where that number resides) damages the image of the whole. C’est la vie. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/156 "2013-07-17T17:42:22Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > At the same time, I think cyclists, or perhaps (arguably) a small subset of cyclists, are their own worst enemy. This percentage (and I’ve accepted that you and I will never agree on where that number resides) damages the image of the whole. > > C’est la vie. Probably even more damaging to their image is the group, however small, that defends asshattery of cyclists. Is there a board someplace where drivers defend putting on makeup or texting while driving, crowding bicycles, or chucking bottles at cyclists? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/157 "2013-07-17T17:52:19Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > The reasons I see cyclists break law and common sense are not because of “traffic flow”. You don’t refuse to yield to pedestrians in cross walks when there are no cars behind you, or ride on the sidewalk, or go the wrong way down a one way street, or ride at night without lights to avoid inconveniencing drivers. Really? You think that people are riding on the sidewalk have no fear of cars? Really? Same with wrong way riding. You do realize that unexperienced riders do that because _they are afraid of cars hitting them from behind?!_ ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/158 "2013-07-17T17:57:19Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Probably even more damaging to their image is the group, however small, that defends asshattery of cyclists. Yes, I know, the Concern Trolls are concerned. But sorry folks, without any cyclists to counter the hysteronics the SBMD has a long tradition of threads turing into absolute hate-fests on bikers, invariably with several folks making suggestions that would restrict the rights of cyclists. Until the cooler heads come along and put things in perspective. ---
**Author:** ![leftfield6](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leftfield6/32/18780_2.png) [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/159 "2013-07-17T18:00:34Z")
I guess we are still waiting for those cooler heads, then. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413/160 "2013-07-17T18:00:41Z")
> [@leftfield6](#): > > Mr Miskatonic, you and I are just not going to get to the same point here. > > I truly don’t hate on cyclists. I know it would be more convenient to think that, since it is easier to just demonize anyone who disagrees with you. I am courteous to cyclist, and ave never once done any of the evil nasty things mentioned above, like crowding, honking, throwing things at, etc. > > At the same time, I think cyclists, or perhaps (arguably) a small subset of cyclists, are their own worst enemy. This percentage (and I’ve accepted that you and I will never agree on where that number resides) _damages the image of the whole_. > > C’est la vie. And why is that? I encounter dangerous dickery from cars practically every day. Shit that endangers my life. But if I were to post about these incidents you would be all ‘I don’t do that’ and everyone would agree. But a some cyclists bend rules and a few act like total asswads and they 'damage the image of the whole. I am amused you just outlined the disconnect I have been pointing out and still do not get it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sick-and-tired-of-bicyclists-ignoring-traffic-law/663413.md?page=9)