My thoughts as well. I don’t know why anyone would laugh at the pregnancy announcement. It was a passive-aggressive knife twist by the ex and I hated her for it. It was also a catalyst for the protagonist, plummeting him to the nadir of his adult life and allowing him to start moving back up.
I’m glad it wasn’t just me who found the ex-wife to be subtly vicious and passive-aggressive. Her air of concern and friendship was really just a mask. There was no reason at all for her to approach him and talk to him except to make him feel small and inferior. If she had cared about him at all, she would have left him alone and never let him know she was there.
I saw the movie yesterday. Loved it, much to my surprise. You had to accept it as it was, a character piece, without expecting the characters to be more than they were. A lesser movie would have made it end happily; the book gets published in the end, the actor realizes what a jerk he is, redemption all around-but life isn’t like that. It ends with a hope for future happiness, and really, that’s all anybody has.
Really? Jeez. If she felt so vicious towards Miles, then why didn’t she announce the pregnancy over the phone? Maybe she did want some sort of confrontation at the wedding, but perhaps this meeting was to sort of settle things rather than twist the knife. She’d been remarried for awhile and Miles was still drinking and dialing.
I felt sympathy toward Miles but he really needed to get over Victoria, who did not, to me, seem callous at all. Miles needed to resolve a lot of problems.
Let’s not forget this guy was stealing from his mom.
Just sayin.’
A question. The scene after the wedding, when he opens the bottle of '61 in the diner: What was the significance? I had two ways-
A. It was symbolic, as per the earlier conversation, and showed that he was ready to “open up” and enjoy life again, and stop hanging on to the past, or
B. It showed his alcoholism and self loathing, wasteing a priceless bottle of wine, drinking it with a greasy diner meal to try and drown his misery over the meeting with the ex-wife.
At the time, I couldn’t decide if his expression was one of appreciation for the wine or depression or just numbness.
Any thoughts?
I have to agree with this. The ending was the most disappointing and cheesy aspect of this movie. Miles wasn’t a sympathetic character, he was utterly despicable. He’s a selfish, shallow man who attempts to hide this behind a veneer of arrogant sophistication.
He hasn’t seen his mother in several years, then pretends to visit her for the purpose of celebrating her birthday, but in reality, it’s just to steal her emergency cash since he’s short of vacation funds. Then he sneaks out of the house before he has to go to brunch with his mother on her birthday as he promised he would.
He lies to Maya about what he does for a living, about his book being published, and about Jacks’ upcoming marriage. Then, after he tells Maya about Jack’s marriage and Stephanie beats the crap out of Jack, he fails to come clean about his involvement in the cat getting out of the bag.
He harasses his ex-wife over the phone. Despite what Diogenes and Chefguy feel, I believe his ex genuinely cared for him. You can hear her concern over the phone when Miles drinks and dials.
The ending to this is that Maya decides to give him another chance, despite lying to her repeatedly, simply because she read his book and he left a, frankly, creepy message on her machine? Give me a break. The movie would have been better had it simply ended with Miles pulling out of Jack’s driveway after dropping him off.
I thought it was both, but in the more negative “you have to hit bottom” way. Maya gave him a lecutre about not letting that wine pass its peak, and how opening it would be enough of a special occasion to justify opening it, but he proves her wrong by using it to wash down a burger. On the other hand, better to stop saving it for a day that’s never going to come.
About Miles’s character being a bad person, the only thing I didn’t really understand was him stealing from his mom. I wasn’t sure why he would do that. But I could see why he had contempt for her. According to my interpretation of what he said to Maya, he did have to take care of his father after his father’s stroke. I had the impression that his mom was an alcoholic too, and that she probably was not helpful when his father needed care. She acted like an emotinal vampire, calling Victoria, flirting with Jack, making plans for Miles to have brunch without asking first. Everyone has a different idea about a grown child’s duty to his parents but I thought there was more to it than Miles just being a jerk.
I also thought Victoria was tired of Miles’s shit and he was lucky she treated him with as much respect as she did. When Jack told Miles she was remarried, wasn’t his first reaction, “oh well I better not go to the wedding I’ll make everyone uncomfortable”? I had the impression he had been a pretty big idiot toward Victoria during the breakup. When he called her, the way she said not to call when he was drunk, seems like he’d done that plenty of times in the past.
I felt like Miles was sympathetic because of a few little things like taking care of his dad, or flossing his teeth before leaving the house, or that he didn’t want to impose himself on Maya and was embarassed by Jack’s bullshit. He was absolutely not on the side of being a hero in any way, and had a real ugly streak running through him, but that’s really the only reason I cared about him so much.
I agree that his mom seemed to be less than pleasant. She seems to barely notice Miles, fawns endlessly over Jack, and makes plans for them without asking. As for Miles stealing from her, it was pathetic but sadly the kind of thing that people do. The expression of self-loathing on his face said it all.
By the end of the movie, however, I think that it is clear that Miles has a shot at putting his life back together and maybe becoming a better person in the process. Jack, however, has revealed himself to be a total loss, without even the slightest hint that he may reform. That pathetic crying jag after he loses the wallet was probably fake; Just look at Miles’ expression, he had obviously seen it before. He reminded me of Bob Crane (Hogans Heros, Sex Addict, subject of recent biopic). How long do you think he’ll stay married?
We liked the movie, maybe not as much as some of you, but enjoyed the acting in particular. I know it had a tiny budget, still I thought it looked incredibly scratchy (maybe a bad print?) and the little split screen montage was funky. I really didn’t think of it as Oscar worthy material, overall.
Mr. Beckwall has decided to leave me for Virginia Madsen, if and when they should meet in real life.
I know I am chiming in late. Having a toddler, the Spongebob’s and Shark Tales of the world generally get my first movie dollar.
But I was pleased I took the time to see this film. Not a great film, but a very good film.
I thought it was an enjoyable bit of acting and directing, even if the film kind of rambled; slice of life flicks are often guilty of this forgiveable sin.
This was sort of a Seinfeld type film. More about nothing than having a high concept. I think I agree with Trunk in that regard. Sure, it had the whole “Wine is Life” theme, but I thought that was too overt to be effective.
But I don’t really need a serious conflict in a film. I generally judge it based solely on what the director, actors, and writers put on the screen.
Other than the absolute requirement of being entertained or captivated for a two to three hours, I need to be moved in some way.
And I was. I didn’t root for Miles and Jack. I didn’t even dislike them (every guy has a buddy like Jack who, despite his personal failings, has always been right with you.)
I really pitied them. And pity is a legitimate emotion.
And I really think that was what the director (who also wrote the script) was going for. I thought they were pretty real, fleshed out characters. Most people do the wrong thing at times. Most people have anxieties.
Miles and Jack were really flawed guys . I really thought Miles was more neurotic than unlikeable until Neurotik’s excellent post. I wonder two things: (1)Is Neurotik male or female? and (2) Would women and men view this film differently?
Because I could see how the different genders could view the same thing MUCH differently. Some men (I say some because Neurotik’s interpretation is WELL justified regardless of his/her gender) would be more forgiving of Mile’s dishonesty regarding Jack. Hell, even Jack’s fear about marriage is somewhat understandable by my caveman mentality! I even think Jack convinced himself he cared about Stephanie and Sienna.
A few other random thoughts:
-
I missed that the wine in the greasy spoon was the '61. I must have been cleaning my glasses or something. That really impacts the ending there! I was wondering what the purpose of that scene was. I thought he was just a drunk…prolly is!
-
The ex-wife thing. I didn’t see a knife at all. I think she wanted closure. Remember, he DID re-open that can of worms with his call. If there WAS any intentional harm by the ex, I felt it was to get him out of her life once and for all. I don’t think his behavior to her was fair. She had moved on. I think her comments pushed him to pop the '61 and take a chance with Maya. On the flip side, Jack did say she liked to make him feel small. Of course, consider the sources.
-
The laughter- I laughed quite hard at the Merlot scene, as did my audience. C’mon. EVERYONE has that friend creates phoney “principles” that he must follow in an effort to sub-consciously sabotage his own happiness for some ungodly reason. That is EXACTLY what the Merlot line said to me. It’s was funny on two levels. Because even without knowing someone like that, that’s still a hilarious line.
-
I always enjoy reading a Dope thread after seeing a movielike this. Always a few excellent thoughts I hadn’t considered.
I just saw this Saturday. I enjoyed it; I thought the script and Giammatti were worthy of Oscar nominations, and I could definitely relate, in some ways, to the Miles and Jack characters. I’m glad I saw it, and it definitely made me want to drink some wine. My wife and I have been on a few California wine-tasting trips, and though we may seem like “wine-snobs” to some of our friends (mostly because we know the names of many different wineries and sometimes what wines go with what kinds of food), we don’t come anywhere close to being actual “wine-snobs”.
I enjoyed the humor of the film. I found it a gentle humor, although I laughed out loud when Miles has his meltdown and pours the bucket of discarded wine into his mouth and all over his shirt. I know it’s not really funny, but it was so unexpected and embarrassingly public.
I dragged my father, mother, brother, and sister-in-law, along with my wife to the theater, telling them it would be a great movie. They all agreed (my father was the sole exception, but he missed the first 20 minutes, having gone into the wrong theater and being assaulted by Blade: Trinity).
I thought it was a fine film. It was very European in its storytelling – not plot driven (as most US films are), but character-driven. And the characters were both interesting and had some real depth to them. For that, it deserves real credit, and it was one of the few films I’ve seen in ages that has been more concerned with character than plot. I like that a lot.
I enjoyed it and I agree that Miles had to plummet before he could start again by going back to Maya.
The merlot scene was great; ditto for Miles trying to run down a hillside and drink wine at the same time; the golfing scene; and the naked guy. Fortunately, my fellow audience members knew when to stop laughing and pay attention to the story. I thought the dialogue was quite good, including Virginia Madsen’s soliloquy on the life of wine.
For a moment, towards the end I was afraid Miles might kill himself. I’m glad I was wrong.
I recommend it.
An excellent post? Moi? You make me blush, sir.
What’s this rush? Addicted to anonymous praise and recognition…must…have…more…
Anyhoo, I’m a male.
Early on in the movie I felt like I was watching the movie Swingers re-adapted for the fortysomething set, and that feeling never left me. Loser with jackass friend go on road trip. Loser plays out the painfully hard to watch loser script many times, and the jackass is a jackass. Realizinf the futility of the loser script, the loser takes stepts away from loserdom at the end of the movie.
Sound familiar anyone?
I kind of liked the idea that Miles vicariously lived through Jack - doing the things he wouldn’t due to a lack of nerve or simple human decency. Maybe picking up girls for a last fling is something that Jack would not have the nerve to do; but it is nowhere near as bad as leading the Sandra Oh character on like Jack did. I think Jack and Miles complimented each other - Miles would like to be as cavalier as Jack, but his essential nature stops that. Jack woud like to have some of the sophistication of Miles - but his nature not only stops that, but says “who cares?” as well. Maybe it was not the original “Producers” as far as being funny, but sure beat the hell out of turkeys like Rushmore, the Royal Tennenbaums and Lost in Translation.
I also enjoyed this movie quite a bit. I really find myself enjoying character driven films like this these days. The Station Agent from a couple years back compares favorably with Sideways.
I have a question about one of the scenes. When Jack is telling Miles that they have to go back and retrieve his wallet, he eventually breaks down in tears, telling Miles that he is nothing without his finance. This scene got some laughs from the crowd I saw it with. I didn’t laugh, but their laughter made me wonder what was really happening on screen. Was Jack just using his acting “skills” to mainpulate Miles into helping him, or was his emotion real?
A couple of jokes that I really liked…“I’m not drinking any fucking merlot”…I knew it was coming, and I still laughed. Also, when they pull into the parking lot of the crappy winery, there’s a big tanker truck being filled with wine. No one in my audience laughed at that one.
Nor I. Please enlighten me. I thought it odd and wondered why they didn’t bottle the wine on sight. What’s the significance?
Box wine?
Neither. It’s tied in with the comment by Virginia Madsen that any time you drank the wine, it would make the moment special. Even in a McDonald’s clone.
They were just showing that the wine was produced in bulk, like gasoline, and was so cheap and awful that it could be transported any old way, not carefully bottled on site (that is, on the premises), with loving care.