# Siege Engines, or Fun Toys **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 1, 2001, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siege-engines-or-fun-toys/79244 "2001-09-01T02:20:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Trucido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@Trucido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trucido)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siege-engines-or-fun-toys/79244/1 "2001-09-01T02:20:50Z")
I plan on constructing some form of rock or bolt-throwing engine along lines established by the Romans and later folk who also needed large rocks thrown at other people. Does anyone out there know of a set of plans, or, better yet, a book which lays out the principles simply enough for a lunatic, er, layman (with a decent physics/carpentry background) to construct the medieval equivalent of a weapon of mass destruction? Also, perhaps the legally inclined could suggest what laws I would be violating by placing a house-sized mangonel in my backyard. Finally, if anyone out there has done this sort of thing before, please feel free to explain what injuries/fatalities I can expect during construction and operation. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siege-engines-or-fun-toys/79244/2 "2001-09-01T02:39:37Z")
Well, [here](http://www.io.com/~brentb/treb/) is one man’s rather amateurish attempt to build a trebuchet. I say, “Hmmmph!” He’ll never take down a castle wall with _that_! [This](http://www.geocities.com/bill0drew/treb/) site shows a better version, along with some crude schematics. You can also find a downloadable Windows or Mac app which can help you with the physics of the contraption here (look in the August 6 link). [Here](http://www.denn14.freeserve.co.uk/engine.html) is a site which has some plans for a larger trebuchet. [Here](http://198.144.2.125/Siege/Blueprints.htm) is a site where you can find all manner of siege engine blueprints(!) ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siege-engines-or-fun-toys/79244/3 "2001-09-01T06:17:20Z")
Really, you didn’t actually just try typing in [www.trebuchet.com](http://www.trebuchet.com/)? If that’s not enough, there’s also [www.Mangonel.com](http://www.mangonel.com/). Have fun, and _watch out for the arm_! It moves _fast_!! ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siege-engines-or-fun-toys/79244/4 "2001-09-01T06:28:34Z")
You might want to check out a quirky, meandering tale called [Catapult: Harry and I Build A Siege Weapon](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0156005565/qid=999325500/sr=1-17/ref=sc_b_17/104-8441160-1127904). Somewhere in there it tells how to build a proper one, while stopping by Archimedes, the Oppenheimers and the atomic bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Trucido](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@Trucido](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trucido)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siege-engines-or-fun-toys/79244/5 "2001-09-01T07:01:22Z")
The websites are great, but I’ve already been through a great deal of them. I’m trying to winnow the wheat from the chaff, though. Certainly a Doper with similar inclinations would have already tried building one, or at least seen one in action. Come on, one of you has got to have been crazy enough to try this. Perhaps someone can reccomend a medieval engineer’s manual? Or at least a competent surgeon to handle the broken bones. ---
**Author:** ![matt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siege-engines-or-fun-toys/79244/6 "2001-09-01T09:24:38Z")
Nova built a couple of big trebuchets off Loch Ness, Scotland, in an attempt to find if Edward 1’s lengendary “Warwolf” was actually possible. Details are at: [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/trebuchet/builds.html](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/trebuchet/builds.html) There’s a fair bit of useful information in the transcript, and if you follow the “Nova builds a trebuchet” link you see the results obtained with test models. Especially interesting is that with a fixed counterweight, a trebuchet tends to rock and tip over when fired, unless you put wheels on it. With wheels, the trebuchet recoils _forward_ due to the counterweight moving back and is both more stable AND more powerful. The second trebuchet had no wheels and used a swinging counterweight to prevent to the rocking problem. ---
**Author:** ![Sultan\_Kinkari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7bcc69/32.png) [@Sultan\_Kinkari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sultan_Kinkari)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siege-engines-or-fun-toys/79244/7 "2001-09-01T15:17:22Z")
I saw a video where some people placed a large trebuchet on the edge of a lake and catapaulted themselves into the water. It looked like alot of fun. ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siege-engines-or-fun-toys/79244/8 "2001-09-01T15:40:43Z")
In the TLC series Junkyard Wars, aka Scrapheap Challenge, they had one team build a trebuchet, and the other a mangonel. If you can catch that episode, ([Seige](http://tlc.discovery.com/fansites/junkyard/episode/season_01.html)) it’s instructive to watch how they made these things, and what mistakes they made. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siege-engines-or-fun-toys/79244/9 "2001-09-01T16:19:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Trucido \* > **The websites are great, but I’ve already been through a great deal of them. I’m trying to winnow the wheat from the chaff, though. Certainly a Doper with similar inclinations would have already tried building one, or at least seen one in action.** Been there, done that. I started building them in the Navy, and doing it by Trial and Error is surprisingly difficult. On the other hand, once you’ve got it working, it can be very rewarding. Initially, I had problems with busting the arm or axle. A good trebuchet releases _loads_ of energy. Once you’ve go a machine that doesn’t tear itself apart, you’ve got to figure out the sling, which is more trial and error. Done wrong, you can launch your projectile straight backwards, up into the air in a useless bloop, or even straight up in the air. Watch out! The missile packs a wallop! Also look out for the throwing arm. If it hits you, you’ll remember it! The kits from [Trebuchet.com](http://Trebuchet.com) work very well, and eliminate the trial-and-error bit. For about US$60.00, you get all the parts, pre-cut, and ready for assembly. If you liked the Floating Arm Trebuchet from Junkyard Wars/Scrapheap Challenge, you can find the kit for that on [Trebuchet.com](http://Trebuchet.com), also. My next project will be the 1/10 scale War Wolf. It should be quite the conversation piece. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siege-engines-or-fun-toys/79244/10 "2001-09-01T17:41:45Z")
> [@](#): > > I started building them in the Navy I thought the Navy had more advanced weapons by now? ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2001, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siege-engines-or-fun-toys/79244/11 "2001-09-01T22:42:43Z")
HarHar. Actually, when underway on long runs where there’s maybe a couple of weeks between ports, ships will sometimes run up alongside each other and have a water-ballon and firehose fight. It breaks up the monotony. I started building trebuchets and mangonels for these. They can launch a full waterballoon _very_ far. It’s fun watching the faces on the other ship as your ranging shot goes _over_ their superstructure, they not yet being in range with their own weapons!