# Siegfried: huh? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 9, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503 "2003-10-09T16:41:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/1 "2003-10-09T16:41:28Z")
> [@](#): > > [CNN](http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/10/08/siegfried.roy/) > Despite reports to the contrary, Siegfried Fischbacher said Wednesday that the white tiger named Montecore did not maul his partner, magician Roy Horn, during a Las Vegas, Nevada, show last week. > > Instead, Fischbacher said on CNN’s “Larry King Live,” Montecore attempted to help his trainer offstage after Horn fell down. > > The tiger put its jaws around Horn’s neck to lift him as a mother cat does with her cubs, Fischbacher said in the interview, his first since the accident. > > Unaware of its strength, the 7-year-old tiger ended up causing Horn severe injuries that have left the performer in critical condition since Friday’s show, he said. > > One audience member said Horn looked like a rag doll in the tiger’s mouth. > > “Listen, I say it was an accident,” Fischbacher said. “If it would be that the tiger would be out for killing Roy, it would [have happened] in no time.” Right, if the tiger really wanted to kill Roy, Roy would be dead now. But trying to help? I don’t buy that for a second. > [@](#): > > [Salt Lake Tribune](http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Oct/10092003/nation_w/100212.asp) > Horn was attacked by a 600-pound Royal White tiger before a crowd of 1,500 at the Mirage. He was alone onstage with the animal when it latched onto his arm. > > ``` > The entertainer tried to free himself by tapping the tiger on the head with a microphone, but the animal lunged at his neck and then dragged him offstage. > > Show workers set off fire extinguishers backstage to distract the tiger, which initially refused to release the performer. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/2 "2003-10-09T16:43:10Z")
Bother. Didn’t catch the miscode in the [first link](http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/10/08/siegfried.roy/). ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/3 "2003-10-09T17:37:15Z")
You know, I never knew that Siegfried’s last name was “Fischbacher.” Now I’ve got Gene Hackman’s voice in my head, yelling “Miss Fischbacherrrrrr!” I understand the need for some folks to advocate complete faith in animals, and to refuse to ascribe to them any sort of wrongdoing. But Siegfried’s stance on this matter is absurd. The only way I can understand his view is if there’s a move afoot to put the tiger to death. If he thinks that’s a possibility, I can see him grasping at straws to prove the tiger didn’t attack Roy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/4 "2003-10-09T18:39:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Sauron_ > I understand the need for some folks to advocate complete faith in animals, and to refuse to ascribe to them any sort of wrongdoing. But Siegfried’s stance on this matter is absurd. Unless, of course, he’s actually correct. I don’t really have an opinion one way or the other, but the guy has spent his entire life training tigers. It’s just possible he knows what he’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/5 "2003-10-09T19:01:38Z")
My favorite S&R anecdote: My mom used to go to the big church on Washington Blvd, in Vegas, that is just a few blocks from where “they” live. She said one sunday, a limo pulls up, and Siegfried steps out, dressed in a white suit with gold crap all over it, and then Roy steps out…\* in drag as a NUN!\*:eek: Sorry, had to share! * * * “Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them! Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.”-- Hell if I know! ---
**Author:** ![Isabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b5a626/32.png) [@Isabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isabelle)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/6 "2003-10-09T19:03:19Z")
It’s hard to say what really happened. The first report sheds the news that Roy was “attacked” and he tried thumping the tiger on the head with the microphone. Maybe the tiger got pissed and DID try to cart him off like a mom tiger would do a cub. Alot of animals are loyal and all the clippings that I have seen of Roy and his tigers they sure do seem like they love him to death and it appears he could do just about anything to them without provoking trouble. I think PETA went a little too far. They were “faxing” Roy in the hospital for Pete’s sake trying to convince him to retire the cats. Hello???The guy is in pain. He needed emergency surgery. He is suffering. Do you think he is going to read the fax and make a decison? He obviously loves the cat. Loving a pet comes with some denial. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/7 "2003-10-09T19:08:03Z")
I can’t imagine they would put a rare animal like one of their tigers down. I could see them retiring the cat to a rescue org or something, where it’d be well taken care of but not handled unless absolutely necessary, but putting the cat down would be just wrong. PETA almost always goes too far. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/8 "2003-10-09T19:11:49Z")
**Miller** , according to news reports, the tiger grabbed Roy by the arm. When he attempted to make it let go, it latched on to his head. I’m not seeing a lot of mothering instinct, there. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/9 "2003-10-09T19:17:03Z")
The tiger first latched onto Roy’s arm, then his neck after being hit with the microphone. I don’t think that sounds very helpful, not the way I think Siegfried was trying to spin it. He makes it sound like the tiger was thinking _Aw, widdle Woy few down. I’ll help him up._ If Eve happens by, my apologies for sounding like a certain cow-orker. ---
**Author:** ![Violin\_D\_Ingrate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/898d66/32.png) [@Violin\_D\_Ingrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Violin_D_Ingrate)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/10 "2003-10-09T20:08:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Isabelle \* > \*\*they sure do seem like they love him to death \*\* Ah-HA! I knew it! They were just loving him. . . to DEATH! ---
**Author:** ![emulsified](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emulsified/32/2915_2.png) [@emulsified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emulsified)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/11 "2003-10-09T20:09:29Z")
I think I sort of see what Siggy is saying. I find it plausible that if this giant beast really wanted to make Roy his lunch, then Roy would have been spam in no time, despite the fire extinguisher wielding stagehands (who were later summarily fired–how’s that for gratitude!). I therefore feel it could in fact be the case that the big white pussy cat merely became somewhat grouchy. However, when a tiger becomes grouchy, it’s time for the tiger to get back in the cage or else some hurtin’ gets dished out. All I know is that our cat Maska must’ve heard about the story. I’ve seen her hungrily eyeing my neck recently. I don’t think I would go so far as to say ---
**Author:** ![emulsified](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emulsified/32/2915_2.png) [@emulsified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emulsified)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/12 "2003-10-09T20:12:10Z")
Oops… I really didn’t go so far as to say it. I meant, “I don’t think I would go so far as to say that Mr. Tiger was intending to ‘help’ poor Roy.” ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/13 "2003-10-09T21:03:56Z")
I don’t know. These guys obviously know a hell of a lot about handling tigers, considering that there has never been another simiar incident. While it may be a tad speculative to assume that the tiger was just offering assistance to Roy, I have to also believe that the tiger was probably not intending to hurt him. More than likely, something spooked the tiger, whether it be Roy slipping or something in the audience, as some of the news stories have suggested. And I agree that this PR probably has something to do with them not wanting the tiger to be put down. I don’t think that it should be either. These animals are too rare to be killed for something that comes naturally to them. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/14 "2003-10-09T21:36:55Z")
As far as grabbing Roy by the head/neck, this is - in canines, at least, and I presume in felines - the normal behaviour of an adult animal to the young of its own species when said adult wants to get said young from point A to point B the easy way. _If_ the tiger sees Roy as a cub, then it wouldn’t think twice about such behaviour, because _it doesn’t know_ that his head/hide is not as thick and well protected as a bona fide tiger cub. I am not saying this is the case. I wasn’t there (thankfully), I don’t know for sure what happened. But I will echo those who have pointed out that these two men have been around tigers the bulk of their adult lives. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/15 "2003-10-09T22:07:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Horn was attacked by a 600-pound Royal White tiger before a crowd of 1,500 at the Mirage. He was alone onstage with the animal when it latched onto his arm. > > The entertainer tried to free himself by tapping the tiger on the head with a microphone, but the animal lunged at his neck and then dragged him offstage. You know in the old days, Vaudville had ‘the hook’…and in the 70’s at the Oscars, bands would just start playing loudly to get actors hamming it up off the stage. But MAN, those Vegas boys don’t fool around, do they? ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/16 "2003-10-09T22:40:06Z")
When their own self interest or world view is a stake, some people will convince themselves of nearly anything, no matter how irrational. Some people are also willing to believe nearly any thing if proposed with enough pretense of sincerity or actual sincerity, no matter how irrational. The tiger was just trying to help Roy? Right! ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@Siegfried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siegfried)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/17 "2003-10-09T22:41:00Z")
Holy shit, I thought I was being pitted. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/18 "2003-10-09T22:47:57Z")
I forgot to ask 2 questions in my post: 1. Is the tiger who dragged Roy offstage by the throat going to be destroyed? 2. If not, is he free the day of The Oscars…? ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2003, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/19 "2003-10-09T23:00:27Z")
Off topic, but I cannot stop myself. There have been jokes, innuendoes and implications over the years about Siegfriend and Roy’s status as a couple. ( My favorite was a joke about " Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon is a new position by Seigfried and Roy" at the Oscars) Have they ever come out of the closet? ---
**Author:** ![SkyBum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@SkyBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkyBum)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503/20 "2003-10-10T00:24:24Z")
[Here](http://klastv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1475112&nav=168XIQs2) is an interesting account from Steve Wynn, further explaining why he does not think this was an attack. It stands to reason, considering the cat’s actions after the “attack”. Given that I really know nothing about the behaviour of these animals, I’m willing to give him the benefit of a doubt. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/siegfried-huh/206503.md?page=2)