# Sierra Club Hostile Takeover **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256 "2004-03-19T18:49:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/1 "2004-03-19T18:49:20Z")
I got an email today alerting me to the attempt by an anti-immigration hate group to take over the Sierra Club. I am not a Sierra Club member, but I know they are the solid go-to group on environmental issues. The Southern Christian Leadership Council, which monitors hate group activity, noticed that three of the candidates for the Sierra Club board were prominent in anti-immigrant hate groups. These guys are apparently counting on the fact that most SC members just send their checks and (maybe) read the newsletters. They don’t vote, so these haters, who haven’t revealed their backgrounds to the Sierrans, can be elected by stealth. Here’s a link for more facts. [http://www.groundswellsierra.org/takeover\_index.php](http://www.groundswellsierra.org/takeover_index.php) Were you aware of this, Sierra Club members? ---
**Author:** ![trudi\_fermelli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@trudi\_fermelli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trudi_fermelli)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/2 "2004-03-19T18:54:18Z")
Huh? What? Wow! No Way! I still haven’t seen or heard everything ☹ . I canvassed for the Sierra Club back in 1996. That was my first active step in becoming more politically active. I learned on the turf beat that when you knock on anyones door with any political agenda, all others are bound to walk in and join the debate. Seems that observation was right on the money. ---
**Author:** ![LVgeogeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b19c9b/32.png) [@LVgeogeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVgeogeek)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/3 "2004-03-19T19:42:15Z")
From what I understand of these anti-immigration people wanting into the Sierra Club… They want to ban/slow the anount of people immigrating to the US because the immigrants put a toll on the environment. Their idea is that immigration=environmental disaster or something. (sorry no cite, just how I view the issue) The way I see it is that the to ban immigrants or to restrict them sort of defies what this country was originally founded upon. ---
**Author:** ![Earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@Earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthling)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/4 "2004-03-19T21:31:29Z")
This controversy seems to have just hit the national news radar within the last few days, so don’t feel too left out if you haven’t heard yet. First, from the major news outlets:[ul][li]NY Times [article](http://tinyurl.com/27lzu)[/li][li]NY Times [op-ed piece](http://tinyurl.com/24x7y)[/li][li]Newsweek [article](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4522557/)[/li][li] San Francisco Chronicle [article](http://www.forests.org/articles/reader.asp?linkid=29338) (quoted through another source)[/ul][/li] From [Alternet.org](http://Alternet.org):[ul][li][Article 1](http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17754)[/li][li][Article 2](http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=18114)[/li]I’m not familiar with Alternet, so can’t vouch for its biases in comparison to the major news sources, but the site came up near the top of a Google search, so hopefully that means something.[/ul] Advocacy groups in favor of electing outside candidates to the Sierra Club’s board:[ul][li][Sierra Democracy](http://www.sierrademocracy.org/)[/li][li][SUSPS.org](http://www.susps.org)[/li][li][Opinion piece](http://www.counterpunch.org/strickler03172004.html) written by an outside candidate who is not included in the above two sites’ endorsement lists.[/ul][/li] Advocacy groups against electing outside candidates:[ul][li][Groundswell Sierra](http://www.groundswellsierra.org) (yes, it’s already been linked, but I wanted to include it for sake of completeness)[/li][li][MoveOn.org](http://www.moveon.org/news/sierra.html)[/ul][/li] Random stuff Google turned up:[ul][li][Anti-immigration screed](http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article3190.html) found on a web site called [intellectualconservative.com](http://intellectualconservative.com). Interpret according to your own political views.[/li]Interestingly enough, in addition to the anti-immigration candidates, who are thought to be associated (perhaps indirectly, though) with right-wing organizations, [Fur Commission USA](http://www.furcommission.com/news/newsF06z.htm) urges you to join the SC to fight off a takeover from the far left wing.[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/5 "2004-03-21T05:02:05Z")
Oh, my duck! The most respected environmental group in the US is about to be turned into a Paki-bashing hate group, and I get \*\*only 3 responses? WTF? \*\* So sad. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/6 "2004-03-21T05:06:04Z")
Moving this to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/7 "2004-03-21T05:08:49Z")
I didn’t know, and I care. Thank you for bringing this to our attention! ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/8 "2004-03-21T05:15:38Z")
My grandparents got an e-mail today from a local coordinator alerting them to the takeover bid, and I’ve contacted my parents, who are also members. If similar local-level information campaigns are underway around the country, there should be enough attention to get the invaders defeated. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/9 "2004-03-21T12:46:56Z")
I have been aware of this for several months. Are the right-wingers actual nut-cases or are they simply expressing a simplistic ‘fewer people is better’ line? (No, I have not followed the links.) ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/10 "2004-03-21T18:50:31Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > Oh, my duck! The most respected environmental group in the US is about to be turned into a Paki-bashing hate group, and I get \*\*only 3 responses? WTF? \*\* So sad. They are hardly the “most respected environmental group in the US”, at least not from my perspective. I loathe extremists of any kind. All the same, it’s a shame what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/11 "2004-03-21T19:03:29Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > They are hardly the “most respected environmental group in the US”, at least not from my perspective. I loathe extremists of any kind. > > All the same, it’s a shame what’s going on. Dave, are there _any_ environmental groups you respect? Because if the Sierra Club doesn’t count as respectable, I don’t know what does. They’re hardly Earth-First or ELF. The only other ones I can think of that are _more_ respectable are The Nature Conservancy and Ducks, Inc. (and the far left considers Ducks Inc to be extremist because it’s mostly composed of duck hunters…). The Sierras are anything BUT extremist… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/12 "2004-03-21T19:08:12Z")
My apologies for the confrontational tone of my last post. It was inadvertent. ---
**Author:** ![Q.N.Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3da27b/32.png) [@Q.N.Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.N.Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/13 "2004-03-21T19:11:29Z")
I’m a Sierra Club member, and this is the first I’ve heard of it. But then, I’m one of those clueless dorks who just sends in her check and leafs through the magazine. Thanks for the heads up. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/14 "2004-03-21T19:44:42Z")
Hmmm. I just followed the links, and noticed that one of the “anti immigrant” candidates was former Colorado governor Dick Lamm. I was very much inclined to approve of Lamm during his tenure as governor and afterwards. I will admit that I haven’t been following what he’s been up to for the last decade, but unless he’s changed radically, he’s hardly any stripe of extremist, and has reasonable environmentalist credentials. Single-minded environmentalists probably won’t agree - what attracted me to Lamm was that he was one of the few politicians I’ve seen that was willing to judge each issue as it came up, weigh alternatives, and not automatically side with a particular ideological camp. One of the few politicians I’ve encountered who seems to have a brain. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/15 "2004-03-21T21:47:04Z")
It’s typical far-right tactics and it has a long history in the UK. For example the facist politcal party the BNP are currently trying to infiltrate the UK’s largest union - UNISON (a general public sector union, also one of Labour’s largest donors) though that seems almost certainly doomed to failure as UNISON is broadly left-wing and anti-BNP. Also you have the pretty succesful takeover by the National Front of the already unsavoury football hooligan ‘firms’ in the eighties. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/16 "2004-03-22T21:28:11Z")
[bump] This just showed up on one of our in-house databases, but can be accessed publicly at the following address: [http://www.aila.org/newsViewer.aspx?bc=273&docID=12558](http://www.aila.org/newsViewer.aspx?bc=273&docID=12558) (click “Restrictionist Watch” link on lower right side of page) Scary how many links there are with hard-core hate groups like the Klan, leaving aside the merely hateful anti-immigrant groups. Thought you might like to know. Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/17 "2004-03-22T22:14:35Z")
Even if one agrees with the anti-immigration stance and sees how it relates to the Sierra Club’s mission, the chutzpah of these guys is still incredible. What ever happened to paying your dues and moving up in the ranks before seizing control of everything? I was at a meeting last week with Dave Pimmentel. I overheard him assure some curious people that he’s not a Nazi and he’s no racist. I’m willing to accept he’s telling the truth, but I’m still scratching my head over his nerviness. I’ve been told that their point-of-view is in fact environment-related: By allowing immigration, you’re creating more Americans. Americans consume more than their fair share of the world’s resources. This is all true, but it seems to me that it’s a selfish way to look at things. It seems like the problem would be solved by reducing our own consumption rate rather than depriving others of success in the New World. True, this is harder to do. But in the long run, it will have more impact. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/18 "2004-03-23T05:31:58Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Dave, are there _any_ environmental groups you respect? Nope, not really. The environment is such a low priority for me that it makes me laugh whenever I see people getting worked up the way the environmentalists do. What’s the big deal? Ooooh, mustn’t hurt the permafrost, so no drilling in ANWR. Like ice matters to the average guy who’s paying $2+ a gallon for gas. Sooner or later we’ll consume every resource on the planet, whether the environmentalists want us to or not. They’re just pissing in the wind. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/19 "2004-03-23T05:54:05Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Nope, not really. The environment is such a low priority for me that it makes me laugh whenever I see people getting worked up the way the environmentalists do. What’s the big deal? Ooooh, mustn’t hurt the permafrost, so no drilling in ANWR. Like ice matters to the average guy who’s paying $2+ a gallon for gas. > > Sooner or later we’ll consume every resource on the planet, whether the environmentalists want us to or not. They’re just pissing in the wind. I think that’s shortsighted and simplistic. Biodiversity and the quality of the air we breathe and the water we drink are things that I don’t think we should be playing around with for the sake of a quarter or two per gallon. That kind of thinking will eventually end up with us living under domes because we managed to completely break the oxygen cycle. That kind of thinking _has_ ended up with us having to fight a fire burning **on top of a river** and spending horribly large amounts of money to clean up lakes (Erie) and harbors (Boston). It’s driven fishermen into poverty because of overharvesting and pollution. The environment can’t be ignored without consequence. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256/20 "2004-03-23T18:25:20Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Sooner or later we’ll consume every resource on the planet, whether the environmentalists want us to or not. They’re just pissing in the wind. Good point which gives me an idea… New Dopefest: Location TBD Entertainment: Russian Roulette After all everyone will die sooner or later whether they want to or not. Those who are unwilling to risk their lives for some good fun entertainment are just pissing in the wind. 🆒 Seriously, you don’t have respect for The Nature Conservancy? 😕 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sierra-club-hostile-takeover/235256.md?page=2)