# \*sigh\* Hillary Clinton is not a "socialist" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 1, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913 "2008-02-01T22:33:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/1 "2008-02-01T22:33:57Z")
I would have thought this preposterous braindead meme would have died by now, but it keeps popping up, [in this forum](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9422556&postcount=66) and presumably in less exacting fora. “It takes a village to raise a child.” – Merely a statement that a child needs to be nurtured and socialized by more than just his/her own family – which is not only obviously true but plainly innocuous. Something I would expect to hear from a Rotarian, not a revolutionary. “We are going to take things away from you for the public good.” – Not the “definition of socialism” but the definition of taxation. Most governments practice it regardless of system or ideology. Her UHC plan is the most business-friendly one on the table right now – even more so than her 1993 plan. [Platform of the Socialist Party USA](http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/) [Positions of the Democratic Socialists of America](http://www.dsausa.org/about/where.html) [Political Positions of Hillary Rodham Clinton](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Hillary_Rodham_Clinton) Compare and contrast. Call her a shrill, cold, pushy, cynical, brass-ovaried bitch if you please, but don’t call her a “socialist.” She deserves not that honor. It’s debatable whether she can even be considered a **liberal.** ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/2 "2008-02-01T22:45:59Z")
The people who call her a socialist aren’t going to be convinced, and they’re not looking at it from a scholarly perspective. They’re generally people who think all Democrats are socialist, or people who don’t like her and are throwing the label out as an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/3 "2008-02-01T22:59:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Call her a shrill,… You know, I keep reading that. Then I see her on TV talking about something or other, and she’s not shrill at all. I’ve never heard her sound shrill. She has a pretty nice, lowish, well-modulated voice. But she must be shrill, or else people wouldn’t keep saying it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/4 "2008-02-01T23:05:31Z")
[QUOTE=Gala Matrix Fire] You know, I keep reading that. Then I see her on TV talking about something or other, and she’s not shrill at all. I’ve never heard her sound shrill. She has a pretty nice, lowish, well-modulated voice. But she must be shrill, or else people wouldn’t keep saying it. [/QUOTE] Indeed she isn’t, nor do I consider her so. But that’s still a more defensible charge than the other; I included it for sake of hyperbole and contrast. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/5 "2008-02-01T23:06:34Z")
[QUOTE=Gala Matrix Fire] You know, I keep reading that. Then I see her on TV talking about something or other, and she’s not shrill at all. I’ve never heard her sound shrill. She has a pretty nice, lowish, well-modulated voice. But she must be shrill, or else people wouldn’t keep saying it. [/QUOTE] She’s a woman, and she has opinions. Ergo, shrill. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/6 "2008-02-01T23:08:07Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] She’s a woman, and she has opinions. Ergo, shrill. [/QUOTE] Inapplicable if they’re RW opinions, of course, viz. Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Phyllis Schlafly, etc. None of **them** could be called “shrill.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/7 "2008-02-01T23:21:29Z")
> [@](#): > > “We just can’t trust the American people to make those types of choices…. Government has to make those choices for people” -Hilary Clinton > **[The HildaBeast](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-hildabeast/)** > > How accurate is collection of controversial statements reportedly made by Hillary Clinton? She is a Socialist… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/8 "2008-02-01T23:26:03Z")
The other day I read the comments on a network news story about how lots of conservatives don’t like the leading Republican candidates. Lots of the them were calling McCain a Socialist, in fact just about anyone to the left of Ron Paul. Half of them were yelling about the incorrectness of the story as they ranted against Romney and McCain, proving the story correct. The other half ranted about how biased the media was for not covering Ron Paul as if he were a viable candidate. The lowliest of Dopers is Einstein in reasoning ability and Hemingway in writing ability compared to those clowns. That they’re not calling her a Communist shows a rise in the level of discourse over what I’d have expected. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/9 "2008-02-01T23:31:38Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] The people who call her a socialist aren’t going to be convinced, and they’re not looking at it from a scholarly perspective. They’re generally people who think all Democrats are socialist, or people who don’t like her and are throwing the label out as an insult. [/QUOTE] What he said. I live in the very GOP corner of my state, & there are some real “all taxes are robbery gubmint is evil business is good” kooks in my state. Heck, I called myself an anarchist for a few years when I was younger. I just never believed business was any good either, or I might be one of them today. By their standards, damn right I’m a socialist, & I’m proud as heck to be one. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/10 "2008-02-01T23:34:29Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/-Nqs6g1IJbA/hqdefault.jpg "The Empress Strikes Back") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Nqs6g1IJbA) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/11 "2008-02-01T23:36:28Z")
[QUOTE=ManiacMan] > **[The HildaBeast](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-hildabeast/)** > > How accurate is collection of controversial statements reportedly made by Hillary Clinton? She is a Socialist… [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: I see exactly what you mean, **Captain Amazing.** ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/12 "2008-02-01T23:36:53Z")
I don’t understand, **ManiacMan** , are you mocking the right-wing crackpots, or…something else? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/13 "2008-02-01T23:38:01Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] The other day I read the comments on a network news story about how lots of conservatives don’t like the leading Republican candidates. Lots of the them were calling McCain a Socialist, in fact just about anyone to the left of Ron Paul. [/QUOTE] And, yet, none of them actually seem to go vote Libertarian. Funny how that works. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/14 "2008-02-02T00:25:43Z")
[QUOTE=ManiacMan] She is a Socialist… [/QUOTE] Cite? ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/15 "2008-02-02T00:28:15Z")
If you read some of the things that has said how can you say she is not a socialist? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/16 "2008-02-02T00:30:53Z")
[QUOTE=ManiacMan] If you read some of the things that has said how can you say she is not a socialist? [/QUOTE] :dubious: No one who understands anything at all about socialism would characterize her so based on any statements (authentic or not) discussed in that Snopes article. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/17 "2008-02-02T00:43:01Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] :dubious: No one who understands anything at all about socialism would characterize her so based on any statements (authentic or not) discussed in that Snopes article. [/QUOTE] Why dispute the very words out of her mouth just because someone is not a socialist scholar? How does that work? I have to be a socialist to fully understand or say that someone is a socialist? That doesn’t make sense at al… How does her saying that Government needs to handle important decisions for the American people _not_ socialism? Maybe it’s more dictatorial? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/18 "2008-02-02T00:59:22Z")
[QUOTE=ManiacMan] How does her saying that Government needs to handle important decisions for the American people _not_ socialism? [/QUOTE] Everyone but the hardest-core Libertarians acknowledges government has to make decisions for people, that’s what it’s **for;** the disputes are over what decisions in what fields. It is not “socialist” to assert, e.g., that our current system of compulsory contribution to Social Security is better than abolishing the whole system and letting people save for their own retirement entirely. Her statement in that context was analogous. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/19 "2008-02-02T01:01:48Z")
[QUOTE=ManiacMan] If you read some of the things that has said how can you say she is not a socialist? [/QUOTE] The only quote from your cite that could remotely be called socialist is: > [@Hillary](#): > > “Many of you are well enough off that [President Bush’s] tax cuts may have helped you. We’re saying that for America to get back on track, we’re probably going to cut that short and not give it to you. We’re going to have to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.” So, you think anyone wanting to rescind tax cuts for the rich is a socialist? Pretty much anyone who ever votes for any tax at all, from school taxes to taxes for road infrastructure falls into this category. So, either most Americans are socialists or you don’t know what you’re talking about. Did you bother to read the comments on these quotes? The one above is accurate, but most are unsourced or suspicious. BTW, you can’t laugh about what she said about the right wing conspiracy any more, since a member of it confessed. ---
**Author:** ![ManiacMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b782af/32.png) [@ManiacMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ManiacMan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2008, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913/20 "2008-02-02T03:36:50Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] The only quote from your cite that could remotely be called socialist is: So, you think anyone wanting to rescind tax cuts for the rich is a socialist? Pretty much anyone who ever votes for any tax at all, from school taxes to taxes for road infrastructure falls into this category. So, either most Americans are socialists or you don’t know what you’re talking about. Did you bother to read the comments on these quotes? The one above is accurate, but most are unsourced or suspicious. BTW, you can’t laugh about what she said about the right wing conspiracy any more, since a member of it confessed. [/QUOTE] Why should “the rich” have something/anything taken away from them? Who gets to decide that? How does taking something away from a “rich” person benefit me? And I was referring to the socialist quotes at the bottom of the Hildabeast article at Snopes, and not much else in that list of quotations. You will note that the two quotes that have to do with her socialist thinking are not disputed by anyone, and I will leave it up to others to explain what she “really” meant. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-hillary-clinton-is-not-a-socialist/435913.md?page=2)