# Sigh, I can't delude myself longer, I really do have poor table manners **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 13, 2006, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496 "2006-09-13T03:13:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/21 "2006-09-13T14:58:58Z")
[QUOTE=Apricot] I spent a week on a cruise vacation with my sweet husband. White tablecloth meals with people I didn’t previously know have once again impressed upon me that I have pretty bad table manners. And I don’t think I care. People still seem to go out to dinner with me even though everyone else seems capable of not doing the following: Forearms on the table Breadcrumbs everywhere from the buttering of the bread - rolls I sliced in half right there at the table Liberal interpretation of foods that can be eaten by hand Loud silverware As mentioned, I don’t think I care. But tell me, if you would, what impression am I making to you? Thanks! [/QUOTE] Well, the worst impression made IMO is the “I know I have bad table manners and I don’t care” part of it. And since if we were dining together, I wouldn’t know that your minor transgressions were willful, as opposed to ignorant, I probably would assume you were doing as you were taught to do and wouldn’t give it another thought. But then, none of your errors are of the type that would throw me off my feed, unless your “liberal interpretation of finger food” is very liberal indeed. Offensively bad table manners are chewing with your mouth open, sticking your hand in your mouth (to pick your teeth or take something back out), shoveling the food in (worse if hunched over doing do), belching, reaching across the table (worse if over other people’s plates) – that sort of thing. Y’know – that things that make your fellow diners go “Ick.” I too was taught not to put my elbows on the table, but if you keep them propped there like they’re glued to the table cloth, that’s still not going to affect my ability to consume my own meal, so I really won’t care. That said, if you’re aware of a tendency to, say, whack your flatware together, and you believed that it might be seen by others as bad manners, it doesn’t seem like it would take much effort to stop doing it. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/22 "2006-09-13T15:17:52Z")
I can’t help but wonder if there’s a correlation between the “yeah, my table manners aren’t great, so what” crowd and the “eff you, I’m not writing no freakin’ thank-you note” group. I shouldn’t read these threads, I really shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/23 "2006-09-13T19:01:03Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] From that paragon of social reporting, The Erie Times: [/QUOTE] With all due respect, that is highly unorthodox, and one may even venture to use the term “incorrect” advice. from [here:](http://reviews.ebay.com/ASPARAGUS_W0QQugidZ10000000001003666?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:LISTINGS:5) > [@](#): > > The official rules of eating asparagus are as follows: > > ``` > * If the spears are served in a sauce, eat them with a fork and knife, cutting into pieces > * If spears they are served dry or in butter, you may pick up the stalks by hand, dip them into the accompanying sauce and eat. > > ``` And [here:](http://www.epicurious.com/cooking/how_to/etiquette_guide/vegetables) > [@](#): > > If asparagus spears are served already in a sauce, eat them with a fork and knife by cutting them into manageable pieces. If they are to be dipped in a sauce and are large, cut off the tips and eat them separately to avoid any dripping and dropping. You may pick up the stalks by hand, and then dip and eat the tougher part. Smaller asparagus spears can be entirely manageable by hand, in which case you can pick up the whole thing, dip, and eat. And a little illumination as to “why” from [here](http://www.peterursbender.com/articles/globalvil.htm) : > [@](#): > > There are a lot of taboos and they all have a basis in culture, often not needed any more. In Switzerland if you are seated formally around a table it is taboo to eat anything with your hand, except to accept a piece of bread. But in the case of asparagus, you eat it only by hand. You also never cut it! That is regarded as uncouth. (The reason is that in the olden days knives were made from common metals, and asparagus stained them badly.) What is this country where you never eat anything by hand, but are required to eat asparagus that way?! And from the be-all-end-alls of etiquette, Miss [Emily Post](http://www.bartleby.com/95/35.html) and [Miss Judith Martin](http://www.amazon.com/Miss-Manners-Basic-Training-Eating/dp/0517701863) agree: [QUOTE=Miss Emily Post] Although asparagus may be taken in the fingers, don’t take a long drooping stalk, hold it up in the air and catch the end of it in your mouth like a fish. When the stalks are thin, it is best to cut them in half with the fork, eating the tips like all fork food; the ends may then be taken in the fingers and eaten without a dropping fountain effect! Don’t squeeze the stalks, or hold your hand below the end and let the juice run down your arm. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Amazon merchant review] munching asparagus with your fingers is acceptable [/QUOTE] But perhaps we should heed [this advice](http://www.protocolconsultants.com/tips.html), and find common ground: > [@](#): > > Americans typically cut asparagus with the fork and knife. In Europe, asparagus is eaten with the fingers. As we are now immersed in a global economy and encourage eating via both the American and Continental styles of dining, it would be acceptable to eat asparagus here in America, with your fingers knowing of course, that you are eating asparagus “European Style.” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/24 "2006-09-13T19:32:40Z")
> [@](#): > > With all due respect, that is highly unorthodox, and one may even venture to use the term “incorrect” advice. With all due respect, I would’ve thought it was obvious from my post that I didn’t think it authoritative. But I assume that they check their resoponses against some source, rather than saying what comes off the top of their heads. In that case, being American, they probably took their adbvice from someplace like the last cite you give. Being American, that’s how I see asparagus eaten. I don’t recall seeing asparagus eaten in Europe any time I was there, sio I can’t say how they do it. But I think I’ll continue to keep my fingers clean. When in doubt, fastidiousness generally holds over messiness. ---
**Author:** ![Mikemike2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikemike2/32/305_2.png) [@Mikemike2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikemike2)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/25 "2006-09-13T20:15:37Z")
Perhaps a bit OT, I once had a friend of my Dad’s ask me if I knew the classy way to remove butter from a knife at a restaurant (while we were dining at one). He then took a whole butter roll and stabbed the butter knife halfway through it. He then grabbed the now cleaner blade of the knife and pulled the knife the rest of the way through the roll. Would that count as bad manners? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/26 "2006-09-13T20:22:18Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] I think it’s because your options for consuming it subsequently consist of getting butter all over your top lip, or showing too much of your teeth when you bite it. [/QUOTE] I usually cut it in half, butter half and put it back together like a little butter sandwich - I don’t get butter all over my upper lip. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/27 "2006-09-13T20:42:18Z")
[QUOTE=BiblioCat] I usually cut it in half, butter half and put it back together like a little butter sandwich - I don’t get butter all over my upper lip. [/QUOTE] I think it’s just better to tear off a little bread, butter it, then eat it. I can’t see any reason why one would require a knife to separate a piece of bread. Personally, I wouldn’t be “offended” by the OP’s bad table manners, but I would probably avoid dining with her again. I’m pretty anal when it comes to etiquette. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/28 "2006-09-13T20:53:54Z")
[QUOTE=BiblioCat] I usually cut it in half, butter half and put it back together like a little butter sandwich - I don’t get butter all over my upper lip. [/QUOTE] Sorry for the delay in responding, but when I read of this horror, I collapsed to the floor in fits of wailing. Seriously, I just don’t think the whole roll-handling etiquette is that big of a deal; it may be a little inelegant according to more-or-less arbitrary standards, but it doesn’t really intrude upon the comfort (physical or otherwise)of other diners like, say, stiking your elbods out, talking with your mouth full, or chewing with it wide open. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/29 "2006-09-13T20:59:20Z")
So stirring my peas into my mashed potatoes and eating them with a spoon would be bad? Keeps the little suckers from rolling away, ya know. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/30 "2006-09-13T20:59:49Z")
You know, it may mark me as a barbarian, but I often do exactly what **Bibliocat** says. And sometimes I butter pieces. I don’t have a fized rule. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/31 "2006-09-13T21:23:16Z")
[QUOTE=twickster] I can’t help but wonder if there’s a correlation between the “yeah, my table manners aren’t great, so what” crowd and the “eff you, I’m not writing no freakin’ thank-you note” group. I shouldn’t read these threads, I really shouldn’t. [/QUOTE] I like to stab the hands of other diners with my fork (or better yet, steak knife!) if I feel they’re coming too close to my food. Is this good manners or bad manners? ---
**Author:** ![DeadlyAccurate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@DeadlyAccurate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadlyAccurate)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/32 "2006-09-13T21:40:42Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] I like to stab the hands of other diners with my fork (or better yet, steak knife!) if I feel they’re coming too close to my food. Is this good manners or bad manners? [/QUOTE] That’s more of a gray area. If it’s brussell sprouts, they’re doing you a favor, so that would be bad manners on your part. If it’s your German chocolate cake, you should also punch them in the face while they’re distracted by your fork. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/33 "2006-09-13T21:41:41Z")
> [@](#): > > I like to stab the hands of other diners with my fork (or better yet, steak knife!) if I feel they’re coming too close to my food. > > Is this good manners or bad manners? It depends. Which fork are you using? Are you reaching across the table? Some hosts are considerate enough to provide Duelling Irons for this purpose, but you should always be discreet. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/34 "2006-09-13T21:43:21Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] It depends. Which fork are you using? Are you reaching across the table? [/QUOTE] Oh, I see. So if the person I wish to stab is a couple seats away, I should ask the person between us to stab them, right? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/35 "2006-09-13T22:58:21Z")
[QUOTE=Excalibre] I like to stab the hands of other diners with my fork (or better yet, steak knife!) if I feel they’re coming too close to my food. Is this good manners or bad manners? [/QUOTE] EXCALIBRE DOESN’T SHARE FOOD!!! I don’t think your table manners are egregious, **Apricot** ; maybe just a little unrefined. I didn’t know about that roll thing; fortunately, I rarely eat rolls with a meal, so it’s kinda moot for me. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/36 "2006-09-13T23:48:51Z")
I tend to butter the whole piece of bread and then tear off pieces. If it’s a roll, I will sometimes tear it in half, butter it, and put it back together, then tear off pieces. I wouldn’t put the whole thing up to my face and bite off a piece, as I was taught that is bad manners, plus it just looks bad. Sometimes I will butter the pieces as I tear them but I’d say I pre-butter most often. What gets me worse than anything, though, is when people get food on their face and don’t immediately wipe it off. So you get a blob of sauce or mayo or something on the corner of your mouth… if it’s me, it gets wiped off immediately. I’ve seen some people who wait to finish their bite, or, worse yet, several more bites, before wiping it off. I know it sounds ridiculously “dainty” of me but it actually upsets my stomach to see people with food on their face. I have to look away lest I lose my appetite completely. Also disgusting to me is people who leave the little dribble of their drink at the rim of their cup after taking a sip (on the outside). I always sip in such a way to not get this little drip, but if it does occur, I wipe it off with my thumb as I set the glass back on the table. It icks me out to see it on other people’s glasses, even worse if it starts to run down the outside. _gag_ ---
**Author:** ![Apricot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@Apricot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apricot)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/37 "2006-09-14T00:02:40Z")
Ah, Opal, you take your “friends” with you (the leftovers on a pop can). I only do that now because my husband insists. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it on a glass though. Now I have to notice. I hate seeing my lipstick on a cup or glass, so I use a straw. That’s probably a similar peeve. I must defend myself - I do send thank you notes! Questionable finger food was shrimp. They kept forgetting to bring a fish fork and asking didn’t get a fork in less than 10 minutes. I have tried to change things, but I get so self-concious that I drop things or clank the silverware together more. I wouldn’t know about plate/fork noises as that’s below the level that I can hear. I suspect my husband would tell me if it was loud - he hates chewy noises, too (that carls jr. commercial - hell on earth). The last straw was on the night that the guy next to me called the way I ate corn on the cob “cute” and said it reminded him of when he was little and his family was poor and lived on a farm and his mom cut corn that way. He looked a little misty. For reference, I cut the corn off the cob with a steak knife, with the half-cob stood vertically - five swipes. Not really related - they poured our female tablemate’s wine into a really really warm (straight from the wash) wine glass. The guy felt his glass first and snapped at the waiter that you don’t pour wine in a hot glass! The guy then offered to bring the lady ice cubes for her wine. O-K. ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/38 "2006-09-14T00:58:17Z")
[QUOTE=BiblioCat] So stirring my peas into my mashed potatoes and eating them with a spoon would be bad? Keeps the little suckers from rolling away, ya know. 😃 [/QUOTE] _I eat my peas with honey. I’ve done it all my life. They do taste kind of funny, But it keeps 'em on the knife._ …couldn’t find the attribution for this. Sorry. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/39 "2006-09-14T02:17:18Z")
[QUOTE=Pazu] _I eat my peas with honey. I’ve done it all my life. They do taste kind of funny, But it keeps 'em on the knife._ …couldn’t find the attribution for this. Sorry. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Written by that ineffably wonderful author, Anonymous. Same dude who wrote _Primary Colors_. ---
**Author:** ![Caridwen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@Caridwen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caridwen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2006, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496/40 "2006-09-14T03:43:38Z")
I don’t think your table manners sound horrible. You ought to think about going on free style cruises. It’s so much nicer without assigned seats and you can sit by yourselves. I’m not big on eating with strangers anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-i-cant-delude-myself-longer-i-really-do-have-poor-table-manners/372496.md?page=3)