# \*sigh\* Obama is not a "racist" (and neither is Rev. Wright, really) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 1, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547 "2008-04-01T16:38:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/201 "2008-04-28T15:57:13Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] How? By saying it. I can’t alter the words that he used. [/quote] He did _not_ say that. That’s just your interpretation of his words,a nd it’s an interpretation (as I’ve pointed out) which is contraindicated by the _rest_ of his words. > [@](#): > > But look, just because he never heard Obama agree with him doesn’t mean that he might not think that Obama does agree with him. Had he said that Obama explicitly told him that he disagreed with him, you might have a point. But he didn’t, and so you don’t. This is a ridiculous angle. He forcefully said “no, no no” when asked if he’d ever heard Obama express any of those same sentiments. He gave no indicationm that he thought Obama agreed with any of it. If he says he never heard Obama say anything like that, then the assumption is that he doesn’t think that way. It’s ridicu;ous to say that a person should have to explicitly _deny_ a given sentiment in order to assume he doesn’t hold it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/202 "2008-04-28T16:10:48Z")
Rev. Wright has been all over the news trying to vindicate his reputation. And you can’t blame him one bit since he was completely misunderstood. But I seriously wish he would stfu until after the election. I just don’t want anything to get in the way of Obama’s campaign. He doesn’t need any more major obstacles like this right now. Damn… ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/203 "2008-04-28T16:20:10Z")
Why would Wright go out of his way to say that Obama disagrees with him? I mean, he sees himself as speaking the truth, not spreading crazy lies, so I’m not surprised that he doesn’t want to portray Obama’s beliefs as being in conflict with his. By expecting him to make statements that show Obama has taken an active view against him means you’re expecting him to tear his own crediblity apart as a way of defending Obama. It also means expecting the man to be able to parse, spin, and do damage control as well as a politician can, which ironically, is exactly what he’s saying you shouldn’t do. His calling Obama a “politician” I interpret to mean that Obama’s job is to talk about and deal in politics, as a government agent. The pastor’s job is to be a pastor, and as such he is afforded the creative license to free-style on any and all topics that can be neatly linked to a Bible passage in the course of an hour or two, including the government. Not everyone uses the word “politician” to mean “someone who says whatever it takes to get elected”. And even if he is, the man has little credibility so what does it matter what he thinks Obama is? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/204 "2008-04-28T16:51:53Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] He did _not_ say that. That’s just your interpretation of his words,a nd it’s an interpretation (as I’ve pointed out) which is contraindicated by the _rest_ of his words. This is a ridiculous angle. He forcefully said “no, no no” when asked if he’d ever heard Obama express any of those same sentiments. He gave no indicationm that he thought Obama agreed with any of it. If he says he never heard Obama say anything like that, then the assumption is that he doesn’t think that way. It’s ridicu;ous to say that a person should have to explicitly _deny_ a given sentiment in order to assume he doesn’t hold it. [/QUOTE] There are two different issues here: 1. Does Obama hold the same views as Wright. 2. Was Obama sincere when he denounced certain statement Wright made. I am not arguing that the answer to #1 is “yes”, nor am I saying that Wright even knows what the answer to that is. I’m just arguing that Wright cast doubt on the sincerity of what Obama said. HE IS NOT HELPING OBAMA OUT BY KEEPING HIMSELF IN THE SPOTLIGHT. But, if he feels that he personally needs to defend himself, he should go ahead and do that. He’s not obligated to put his own personal needs behind those of Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/205 "2008-04-28T16:51:54Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] Not everyone uses the word “politician” to mean “someone who says whatever it takes to get elected”. And even if he is, the man has little credibility so what does it matter what he thinks Obama is? [/QUOTE] In the context he used it he clearly implies whatever it takes to get elected: [Wright implied Obama still agrees with him by saying](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9912.html): “He had to distance himself, because he’s a politician, from what the media was saying I had said, which was [portrayed as] anti-American.” I agree the man has little credibility. He’s an urban hillbilly who flings racially insensitive drivel at his congregation. The man is supposed to guide and inspire people. Obama put Wright on his social resume claiming him as a 20 year mentor. If he has little credibility then why would someone who wanted to be President of the United States sign on to the racially insensitive bandwagon of the Reverend Wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/206 "2008-04-28T16:58:50Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] There are two different issues here: 1. Does Obama hold the same views as Wright. 2. Was Obama sincere when he denounced certain statement Wright made. [/QUOTE] Obama never denounced specified statements made by Wright. He ducked the issue entirely by saying he was aware that racially insensitive statements were made. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/207 "2008-04-28T17:13:48Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Obama never denounced specified statements made by Wright. [/quote] Yes he did. > [@](#): > > He ducked the issue entirely by saying he was aware that racially insensitive statements were made. Utterly false. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/208 "2008-04-28T17:14:50Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] In the context he used it he clearly implies whatever it takes to get elected: [Wright implied Obama still agrees with him by saying](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9912.html): “He had to distance himself, because he’s a politician, from what the media was saying I had said, which was [portrayed as] anti-American.” I agree the man has little credibility. He’s an urban hillbilly who flings racially insensitive drivel at his congregation. The man is supposed to guide and inspire people. Obama put Wright on his social resume claiming him as a 20 year mentor. If he has little credibility then why would someone who wanted to be President of the United States sign on to the racially insensitive bandwagon of the Reverend Wrong. [/QUOTE] What did Wright say that was “racially insenitive?” ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/209 "2008-04-28T17:18:28Z")
Another poster who’d like to see an actual racist quote by Wright. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/210 "2008-04-28T17:33:00Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] What did Wright say that was “racially insenitive?” [/QUOTE] You tell me, those were the words HE (Obama) used. And show me where he listed the statements he disagreed with. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/211 "2008-04-28T17:33:55Z")
> [@Wright](#): > > "He had to distance himself, because he’s a politician, from what the media was saying I had said, which was [portrayed as] anti-American.” Since the truth of this statement is indipustable, why is this worth gasping over? I think it’s unreasonable to expect Wright to marginalize _himself_ by saying that Obama doesn’t agree with his rhetoric. Would you expect Hagee, in an interview about his Katrina remarks, to emphasize that McCain thinks those ideas as expressed were inappropriate and offensive? I wouldn’t. I would expect Hagee to come as close as he can to saying McCain agrees with him, without being so bold as to say that. It’s called self-preservation. And anyone who would use that as evidence of what McCain _actually_ believes would be foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/212 "2008-04-28T17:34:01Z")
[QUOTE=Larry Borgia] Another poster who’d like to see an actual racist quote by Wright. [/QUOTE] Didn’t say racist, I said racially insensitive. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/213 "2008-04-28T17:56:48Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Didn’t say racist, I said racially insensitive. [/QUOTE] Actually, Wright – and this appears to be the very thing some find objectionable about him – is extraordinarily racially **sensitive,** i.e., sensitive to the problems of racism as, perhaps, only an AA can be. From the Moyers interview: > [@](#): > > BILL MOYERS: Marty told me that you launched a strenuous effort to help the members of that church overcome the shame, and I’m quoting him, “they had so long been conditioned to experience.” What was the source of that shame? > > REVEREND WRIGHT: What Carter G. Woodson calls the miseducation of the Negro. That Africa is ignorant, Africans are ignorant; there is no African history, there is no African music, there is no African culture, anything related to Africa is negative, therefore you are not African. Chinese come to the country, they’re still Chinese-American. We have Chinatown. Koreans come, they’re still Korean. They have Koreatown. Africans come, they’re colored. They’re Negro. They’re anything but Africa. In fact, we don’t even call them Ebbu, Ebibu, Fulani, Fanti, Ga, no, no, no – they’re all “Negro.” Portuguese, “Negro” Spanish. They’re all gettin’ lumped into black, but we’re not black, we are Negro with a capital N. > The shame of being a descendant of Africa, was a shame that had been pumped into the minds and hearts of Africans from the 1600s on, even aided and abetted by the benefit of those schools started by the missionaries, who simply carried their culture with them into the South and taught their cultures being synonymous with Christianity. So that to become a Christian, you had to let go of all vestiges of Africa and become European, become New Englanders and worship like New England, worship God properly and right. Well, that shame was a part of the shame that many Africans in the '60s and the '70s were feeling. > Dr Reuben Sheares is my predecessor – he was the interim pastor at Trinity – coined the phrase “unashamedly black,” where blacks coming outta the '60s were no longer ashamed of being black people, nor did they have to apologize for being Christians. Because many persons in the African-American community were teasing us, Christians, of being a white man’s religion. And no, we’re not ashamed of Christianity. And we don’t have to apologize for who we are as African-Americans. So that, I think, is what Marty was talking about. > > BILL MOYERS: So, when Trinity Church says it is unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian, is it embracing a race-based theology? > > REVEREND WRIGHT: No, it is not. It is embracing Christianity without giving up Africanity. A lotta the missionaries were going to other countries assuming that our culture is superior, that you have no culture. And to be a Christian, you must be like us. Right now, you can go to Ghana, Nigeria, Senegal, and see Christians in 140-degree weather. They have to have on a tie. Because that’s what it means to be a Christian. Well, it’s that kind of assuming that our culture, “We have the only sacred music. You must sing our music. You must use a pipe organ. You cannot use your instrument.” It’s that kind of assumption that in the field of missions, people say, “You know what? We’re doing this wrong. We need to take Christ and leave culture at home. We need to learn the culture of people into which we’re moving, and preach the methods of Jesus Christ using the culture that we are a part of.” Well, the same thing happened with Christians in this country when they said, “You know what? Because those same missionaries who went south, they didn’t let us sing gospel music.” That was not sacred– > > \ > > BILL MOYERS: Our denomination, the United Church of Christ has called for a sacred conversation on race in America. What are the steps that you think from all of your experience can be taken to move race relations forward? > > REVEREND WRIGHT: I think there are many - to start using Bill Jones’ paradigm, about how one sees God. Your theology determines one’s anthropology. And how you see humans determines your sociology. To look at how we’ve come to see race, and in others of other races, based on our understanding of God who sees others as less than important. Less than my people. And where in our religious traditions are there passages in our sacred scriptures that are racist? They’re in the Vedas, the Babylonian Talmud, they’re in the Koran, they’re in the Bible. How do we grapple with these passages in our sacred texts? The same way you grapple with Judges:19, where it’s alright for a preacher to have a concubine and cut her up into 12 pieces. We gotta argue with our texts that are, as we’ve been struggling with, battling with, wrestling with, anti-Semitic. The Christian, “The Jews killed Jesus.” No, we gotta come to grips with, you know, these texts were written by certain people at certain times with certain racist understandings of others who are different. That different meant deficient. That doing that with adults and starting with kids. that begins the conversation that Senator Obama talked about that we need to have. And re-writing the curriculum in our schools to tell the truth in our schools. Where’s the racial insensitivity in **that?!** Now, I admit Wright is flat wrong in assuming that “Africanity” has any relevance to African-Americans. African-Americans are not Africans in America. Their culture owes much more to Europe than Africa and any one of them would feel more at home in Copenhagen than Kinshasa; and, beyond a shared history of oppression, they really have little in common with Afro-Caribbeans or Afro-Latinos. But he’s spot-on otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/214 "2008-04-28T20:02:04Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] You tell me, those were the words HE (Obama) used. And show me where he listed the statements he disagreed with. [/QUOTE] Obama didn’t say they were racist (or racially insensitive). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/215 "2008-04-28T20:53:29Z")
This is why this discussion is pointless. > [@](#): > > BILL MOYERS: So, when Trinity Church says it is unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian, is it embracing a race-based theology? > > REVEREND WRIGHT: No, it is not. Apparently “black” isn’t a race, and Christianity isn’t a theology. Well, [there’s glory for you.](http://www.sabian.org/Alice/lgchap06.htm) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/216 "2008-04-28T21:00:53Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] This is why this discussion is pointless.Apparently “black” isn’t a race, and Christianity isn’t a theology. Well, [there’s glory for you.](http://www.sabian.org/Alice/lgchap06.htm) Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] 😕 I myself am unashamedly white. Also, I am unapologetically christian.\* Do I have a race based theology, then?! :eek: -FrL- \*…well… I coulda been anyway. Depends on what you mean by “apologetic.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/217 "2008-04-28T21:25:34Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] 😕 I myself am unashamedly white. Also, I am unapologetically christian. Do I have a race based theology, then?! :eek: [/quote] Yes, if you define yourself that way, you do. Unless white is black. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/218 "2008-04-28T21:30:30Z")
Gee, I wonder if Reverend Wright said anything after the short sentence you quoted: “No, it’s not”. Like something that might justify the answer he gave, and maybe even made a lot of sense. I guess we’ll never know. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/219 "2008-04-28T21:34:11Z")
Oh, he said a lot. Talking your way into black-means-white usually takes a lot of time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547/220 "2008-04-28T21:34:42Z")
Geez, you’d think it was Wright himself who is running for President. The press is really playing this up as Obama = Wright, unless he can prove otherwise. I am so ridiculously fed up with this “issue”. Isn’t there a war? Isn’t rhere a credit crisi? Isn’t the country slipping into recession? Health care, anyone? This is driving me crazy, what is supposed to happen here. I mean the press talk about this Reverend Wright thing, woithout really ever saying what the issue is. It seems to boil donw to, “Obama has a problem” and “Obama needs to explain this”. It is sad, because I beleive the real question they want to ask is, “You are a angry black man, with angry black friends, please make us white folks feel comfortable that you aren’t really angry.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-obama-is-not-a-racist-and-neither-is-rev-wright-really/443547.md?page=12)