*sigh* . . . OK, once again: How many Iraqis have died because of the war/occupation?

[RedFury]

@Hail Ants

…And the arab world already thought we were monsters pre-9/11. And what I did see was Saddam saying we deserved 9/11 and arabs dancing in the streets over it.

– bolding mine.

Kindly provide a cite or retract. We fight ignorance here not spread it. I mean it’s bad enough you still think of him as the original Saddamite

[9thFloor]

151,000 up to 223,000

BBC NEWS | Middle East | New study says 151,000 Iraqi dead

[E-Sabbath]

104,000 to 223,000. I’m guessing they’re showing two standard deviations to each side.

[RTFirefly]

Here’s the New England Journal of Medicine article reporting the W.H.O. study.

Either it’s talking a language that appears to be one I understand, but isn’t, or it’s full of horseshit from the get-go, and I honestly have no clue which it is.

From the third paragraph of the abstract:

the overall rate of death per 1000 person-years was 5.31

Compare that with the U.S. figures for 2004 from the National Center for Health Statistics:

Number of deaths: 2,397,615

Death rate: 816.5 deaths per 100,000 population

Life expectancy: 77.8 years

To me, 816.5 deaths per 100,000 population in one year looks like 8.165 deaths per 1000 person-years, or better than 1.5 times the Iraqi overall death rate. And we’re a nation at peace, with a reasonable approximation of law and order, and where most people have access to a pretty good health care system.

There’s something I expect I’m just not getting here. Anybody got more of a clue than I do?

[Sal_Ammoniac]

An important caveat about the WHO study – they stopped counting in summer of 2006, before some of the worst of the violence. And again, they’re counting violent deaths, not deaths due to preventable illness, decline in public hygiene, etc. For myself, I’m content to say that the war has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens. Got to kill 'em in order to save ’ em, right?

[John_Mace]

I tuned in late, but NPR is discussing the various methods right now. Not sure what their conclusion is yet.

[elucidator]

@Sal Ammoniac

An important caveat about the WHO study – they stopped counting in summer of 2006, before some of the worst of the violence. And again, they’re counting violent deaths, not deaths due to preventable illness, decline in public hygiene, etc. For myself, I’m content to say that the war has cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi citizens. Got to kill 'em in order to save ’ em, right?

And who’s going to count the people who fled the country and died elsewhere?

[Sophistry_and_Illusion]

@Hail Ants

I never said gladly. Nor do I really believe the 600,000 figure. I said that an armed response to 9/11 was necessary and that response needs to accomplish its goals even if that means a lot of casualties.

I guess that redeems you morally, if you are not actually filled with glee at the prospect of 100,000 or 200,000 dead Iraqis.

But you never answered my more fundamental question: How were the Iraqi people supposed to prevent 9/11? I already pointed out that the last attempted revolt in Iraq was brutally suppressed. And it has been pointed out numerous times that Iraq was not involved in the 9/11 attacks. So how is it okay to kill Iraqi Muslims for a crime they weren’t involved in? Just because it will deter other Muslims from committing crimes against the US (which it won’t, of course)? I am serious; I really want an answer to this question.