# \[sigh\].....US Chopper fires on wedding party. 40+ dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 19, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997 "2004-05-19T17:50:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/21 "2004-05-19T21:20:28Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I’m so sick of any petty, bullshit justification we can grasp onto being used to justify attrocities like this. FUCK anyone who tries to say this shit was justified because some Iraqis fired some pistols in the air. Do they really deserve to be slaughtered like turkeys because of that? Are we really such callous, self-righteous, self-justifying scum as a people that the slaughter of children is so easily blamed on those parents who “should have known better?” Apparently we are. > > Let’s not forget that WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE IN THAT FUCKING COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE! > > We have no moral right whatever to decide that any gunfire whatever makes it ok for us to kill children. Fuck that. I’m sick of that. We were wrong. We need to just fucking deal with that and quit making fucking excuses. > > Some fucking heros we’ve got over there. > > Some “liberation.” Just a question…seriously. How would a helicopter know that it was a wedding party and not a group of insurgents? ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/22 "2004-05-19T21:20:59Z")
Max the Vool, Sorry, but you should change your membername a bit. I woud not recoomend to replace V with F, I would propose to replace the last word with what you called the Iraqi people who celebrate a wedding according their own traditions. Invaders who invade and occupy a nation while having no clue about that nation is already unforgivable. But they don’t even have a clue about it after more then a year of occupation which says more then any words can say about the cause and reasons of everything what happened there upto know (and that is: what we know a little about). People who underscribe that arrogance are not only idiots. They are brainless. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/23 "2004-05-19T21:23:23Z")
Kalhoun, How would a helicopter crew know that children are not the resistence? Maybe they should take a few more Go Pills? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/24 "2004-05-19T21:28:37Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > In all fairness, I’m pretty sure it’s not as if a couple of Apaches or AC-130s or whatever they were came across some beautiful weding procession with the cake and the flowers and the limos and the ugly bridesmaid dresses and opened up on it with 20mm cannon fire as the happy couple came running out of the church. You must be among those people who think that whole world is just like the US. Weddings included. All just equal to the Mc.Donalds Culture. By the way: You forgot to mention churchbells and a TV “priest”. And US flags wherever you happen to look. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/25 "2004-05-19T21:30:42Z")
Aldebaran, I firmly disagree with the war in Iraq, and think this incident tragic. But… > [@](#): > > I would propose to replace the last word with what you called the Iraqi people who celebrate a wedding according their own traditions. This is a stupid and ignorant tradition. What goes up, comes down. And it comes down at the same rate. There are always a couple injuries or death on Cinco de Mayo in Mexico when this happens. The sooner cultures learn to stop shooting guns in the air in celebration, the better. > [@](#): > > Invaders who invade and occupy a nation while having no clue about that nation is already unforgivable. Irrelevant. Firing guns in the air when there are military aircraft in the region is borderline suicide when your country is currently occupied. And Kalhoun’s question was entirely relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/26 "2004-05-19T21:37:14Z")
Munch, Who are you to decide what in an other people’s culture is “ignorant”? They celebrate their wedding like that. That is their way of celebrating a wedding. They do not celebrate a wedding like you do. Or like many other people do. They do it their way. There is no reason what so ever for people to change their culture because a lunatical US mass murderer and his Maffia send in US troops to occupy their nation. Got it? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/27 "2004-05-19T21:38:39Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > You must be among those people who think that whole world is just like the US. Weddings included. All just equal to the Mc.Donalds Culture. > By the way: You forgot to mention churchbells and a TV “priest”. And US flags wherever you happen to look. > Salaam. A Um no…my point is that it is not like a traditional American weding. Sorry if those flags offend you…I guess all those waving American flags must remind you of how much our country kicks ass. > [@Aldebaran](#): > > How would a helicopter crew know that children are not the resistence? Yeah because they would never use CHILDREN like that :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/28 "2004-05-19T21:39:26Z")
Stupid question, but did they do this type of wedding celebration when SH was in power? (I don’t know if they were allowed to have weapons) Second stupid question. The bullet returns to earth at muzzle velocity? Wha? This is in regards to the comment “what goes up comes down at the same rate”. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/29 "2004-05-19T21:42:19Z")
> [@](#): > > You must be among those people who think that whole world is just like the US. Weddings included. All just equal to the Mc.Donalds Culture. > By the way: You forgot to mention churchbells and a TV “priest”. And US flags wherever you happen to look. The disconnect between idiomatic expression and the lack of comprehension of idiomatic expression by people whose first language is not English is so frustrating at times. Not to say it’s **Aldebaran** ’s fault necessarily, except in his rabid willingness to roundly excoriate the US for any possible fault, and at every provocation. **Aldebaran** , I’m not trying to be obfuscatory when I tell you that when **msmith537** said “happy couple coming out of the church,” he meant precisely the opposite. See, he said, “It’s not as if…”, which calls upon the reader to parse both a simile and a negative. This can be difficult for a non-native speaker. He was saying precisely what you think he _wasn’t_ saying…that Iraqi weddings in all likelihood do not resemble the typical American wedding. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/30 "2004-05-19T21:44:47Z")
> [@](#): > > And it comes down at the same rate. Not true. Not even close. It does come down at a rate sufficient to injure and even kill, but nowhere even close to muzzle velocity. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/31 "2004-05-19T21:44:48Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > There is no reason what so ever for people to change their culture because a lunatical US mass murderer and his Maffia send in US troops to occupy their nation. > > Got it? > > Salaam. A Well, in this instance it seems that there is a good reason. The reason being, so that they don’t die. I agree that this is a terrible thing that has happened, but it just seems to make sense that when your country is occupied and is a war zone that you wouldn’t want to fire a weapon into the air. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/32 "2004-05-19T21:47:13Z")
By the way: There are many things in many cultures that are different then they are in yours. There are for example many things in other nations - also in my own region - that I don’t see as to be in line with my way of life, my background, my culture. Do you think that if I send in an army to occupy these nations that the citizens of that nation all of a sudden become like I am? Do you think they would be even aware of the differences between my ideas and culture and theirs? Iraqis have the right to have their own culture. They equally have the right to expect the invaders to **know** about it and to **respect** it. At the very least, I should say. And I have serious doubts about it that a majority of people in Iraq these days have even an idea that they do things different then in the USA. Hence they **expect** that those who are occupying their country **know** that with a wedding there comes some firing of arms. Or do you think the Iraqis must ask **permission** of the occupyers to get married? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/33 "2004-05-19T21:50:34Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Munch, > > Who are you to decide what in an other people’s culture is “ignorant”? > > They celebrate their wedding like that. That is their way of celebrating a wedding. They do not celebrate a wedding like you do. Or like many other people do. They do it their way. Fine. Then can I say that the helicopter pilots were just helping them celebrate? :rolleyes: Again, it is stupid and ignorant to celebrate by firing weapons in the air. I can say that because it’s true. The intention of their actions is to celebrate. The \*consequence \* of their action was to get their entire party killed. In other instances, it is to get other people killed from a bullet straight through the top of their head. > [@](#): > > There is no reason what so ever for people to change their culture because a lunatical US mass murderer and his Maffia send in US troops to occupy their nation. > > Got it? Where the FUCK did I ever say that? The reason for them to change their culture is to stop getting people killed from a dangerous activity. It has nothing to do with the US. If there’s a culture in Sri Lanka where they rape their cousins to celebrate their birthday, they should stop. Why? Because it’s ignorant, harmful and wrong! ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/34 "2004-05-19T21:50:50Z")
Again, there has [not yet](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/19/iraq.main/index.html) [any](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120373,00.html) [proof](http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters20040519_461.html) that a wedding was indeed hit. Those who blithely take the charges at face value are obviously willing to use any rumor as a launchpad for ideological ranting. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/35 "2004-05-19T21:52:25Z")
The whole problem lies not with the Iraqis who are in their own country. The problem is **the US arrogance**. Entirely. From the minute this criminal invasion was plotted up to this very day. The arrogance to plot to invade a nation The arrogance to plot to do this whout even thinking about making a single effort to try to gain _some_ insight in the ethnicies, the religions, the cultures of that nation. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/36 "2004-05-19T21:59:00Z")
Munch, So you say that indeed they must run to the occupyers to ask permission to get married and celebrate it as they celebrate it. And you say that they must **know** that in the US there are no guns fired at a wedding. Well, I can tell you that many do not know that. Maybe you should get over there to give a show on how you celebrate a wedding and say that you want them to do it like that. You should go then from romote village to remote village, with a TV/Video/CD set and don’t dorget your diesel engine to make power and your diesel to get the diesel engine working. Then you can preach that from now on they **must** do it like that because the poor US soldiers that came to liberate them right into death have no clue about the world, let be the country they occupy, and believe the world is like the USA. Good luck. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/37 "2004-05-19T21:59:44Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > The whole problem lies not with the Iraqis who are in their own country. > > The problem is **the US arrogance**. > Entirely. > From the minute this criminal invasion was plotted up to this very day. > The arrogance to plot to invade a nation > The arrogance to plot to do this whout even thinking about making a single effort to try to gain _some_ insight in the ethnicies, the religions, the cultures of that nation. > Salaam. A You forgot: The arrogance not to take their weapons offline when they think someone’s shooting at them. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/38 "2004-05-19T22:01:22Z")
> [@](#): > > This is a stupid and ignorant tradition. What goes up, comes down. And it comes down at the same rate. There are always a couple injuries or death on Cinco de Mayo in Mexico when this happens. The sooner cultures learn to stop shooting guns in the air in celebration, the better. You wanna’ know what else is a stupid and ignorant tradition? The Fourth of July. What blows up is bound to cause a few injuries. Every year, all around the country, some little Timmy decides he wants to play with some M-80’s or other fireworks and blows off an arm or gets himself killed. By the same token, camp fires should be going out the window too. And yet, our ignorant, ass-backward culture clings to these things. No, firing guns in the air isn’t the height of intelligence, but a lot of cultural traditions aren’t either. It’s culture, and it has value for the people that carry it. It is worth something. > [@](#): > > Just a question…seriously. How would a helicopter know that it was a wedding party and not a group of insurgents? Uh, I pray for the helicopter pilot that cannot differentiate between fighters in tactical positions actually trying to bring down a helicopter and 50-odd people gathered in a circle hollering and firing guns straight up. Think about it, if you were an Iraqi insurgent and wanted to take down a helicopter, would you even try to do it with an AK-47 in the first place? All that it is likely to do is get you noticed by the person you’re firing at without much of a chance of actually damaging the helicopter. You would at least want to use some sort of MANPAD weapon. All that said, I actually have to agree with **Aldebran** in this thread, ASSUMING that the story is true. He’s right, we don’t have all the facts in yet and cannot make a conclusion yet. The US Army still appears to maintain that it was a wedding party. It is likely that this fact will become much clearer either way in the very near future. I will restrain from further comment until this is readily apparent. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/39 "2004-05-19T22:01:34Z")
> [@rsa](#): > > Guess you should ignore my previous post. I am sure that I heard what I posted, but there have been no further reports and I can’t find any web news which I would expect to see after 30 minutes. The current lead story on [cnn.com](http://cnn.com) backs this up–the Pentagon is saying they were insurgents, not wedding participants. Frankly, I believe that to be completely obvious: Insurgents have guns, the people who were fired upon have guns, therefore the people who were fired upon were insurgents. If you disagree, then you’re a long-haired Chomsky-reading pinko freak who hates the USA! USA! USA! USA! Think I’m gonna go huff some more benzene… ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/40 "2004-05-19T22:06:54Z")
> [@](#): > > So you say that indeed they must run to the occupyers to ask permission to get married and celebrate it as they celebrate it. > > And you say that they must know that in the US there are no guns fired at a wedding. Well, I can tell you that many do not know that. > > Maybe you should get over there to give a show on how you celebrate a wedding and say that you want them to do it like that. > You should go then from romote village to remote village, with a TV/Video/CD set and don’t dorget your diesel engine to make power and your diesel to get the diesel engine working. > Then you can preach that from now on they must do it like that because the poor US soldiers that came to liberate them right into death have no clue about the world, let be the country they occupy, and believe the world is like the USA. I very much doubt that this is the case at all. What is the case is that soldiers have a tendency to react sharply to people whom they perceive are shooting at them. Dang ol’ survival instinct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997.md?page=3)