# \[sigh\].....US Chopper fires on wedding party. 40+ dead **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 19, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997 "2004-05-19T17:50:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/41 "2004-05-19T22:10:10Z")
[quote] Timmy decides he wants to play with some M-80’s or other fireworks and blows off an arm or gets himself killed.[/quoteAnd I hate to tell you this, but it’s entirely the fault of Timmy and his stupid, destructive tradition that he got killed. See where I’m going with this? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/42 "2004-05-19T22:15:13Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Munch, > > Who are you to decide what in an other people’s culture is “ignorant”? > > They celebrate their wedding like that. That is their way of celebrating a wedding. They do not celebrate a wedding like you do. Or like many other people do. They do it their way. > > There is no reason what so ever for people to change their culture because a lunatical US mass murderer and his Maffia send in US troops to occupy their nation. > > Got it? > > Salaam. A Yeah, I got it, **Aldebaran**. Really, I do. But it’s not about culture. Honest, it’s not. We have stupid fucking idiots here in the United States who shoot guns in the air in “celebration,” too. And many of them get injured or killed doing so. _Anyone_ who for _any_ reason, at _any_ time (peacetime, wartime, illegal or not) fires a gun into the air is a dumbass. The Master, Cecil, reports: > [@](#): > > [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a950414b.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a950414b.html) > > [The military conducted] tests with, among other things, a .30 caliber bullet weighing .021 pounds. Using a special rig, the testers shot the bullet straight into the air. It came down bottom (not point) first at what was later computed to be about 300 feet per second. > > \ > > Experiments on cadavers and such have shown, for example, that a .38 caliber revolver bullet will perforate the skin and lodge in the underlying tissue at 191 feet per second and that triple-ought buckshot will do so at 213 feet per second. > > Mattoo’s equation predicts that Hatcher’s .30 caliber bullet, which has a small diameter in relation to its weight, will perforate the skin at only 124 feet per second. It’s easy to believe that such a bullet falling at 300 feet per second could kill you, especially if it struck you in the head. So it really is a stupid thing to do, period, no matter where you’re from or why you’re doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/43 "2004-05-19T22:16:24Z")
threemea, You forgot the traditon to shoot off firework in private homes for celebrating the New year. Every year again people get killed and wounded by that. But that is OK… It is done in the West. They know what they are doing. Iraqis being not Western are idiots… One must understand that. How lucky I am that I am half Western. I am only half idiot. Salaam. A _Having as permanent guest an Iraqi who now - in her old age - is sleepless because her relatives might get murdered or whatever by the US’ers. Who are US’ers and thus Super Humans always knowing what they do. Indeed… They know it_. ---
**Author:** ![Greathouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greathouse/32/2992_2.png) [@Greathouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greathouse)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/44 "2004-05-19T22:21:53Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Iraqis being not Western are idiots… One must understand that. > How lucky I am that I am half Western. I am only half idiot. Well, you’re half right. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/45 "2004-05-19T22:23:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I am only half idiot. Bullshit. You’re an idiot clear to the bone. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/46 "2004-05-19T22:24:46Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > _Anyone_ who for _any_ reason, at _any_ time (peacetime, wartime, illegal or not) fires a gun into the air is a dumbass. Dick Cheney and Antonin Scalia must be dumbasses then. I hear they recently spent several days shooting guns in the air! Lucky there weren’t any Apache helicopters around then–I can just hear President Bush now: “I offer my sincere condolences to the Scalia and Cheney families, but we are a nation at war …” ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/47 "2004-05-19T22:27:17Z")
> [@Greathouse](#): > > Well, you’re half right. I know. I work already my whole life to have my family believe that at my word. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/48 "2004-05-19T22:32:04Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Dick Cheney and Antonin Scalia must be dumbasses then. Yup. If they’re shooting guns straight up into the air, they are most decidedly dumbasses. And irresponsible ones, at that. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/49 "2004-05-19T22:35:47Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Yup. If they’re shooting guns straight up into the air, they are most decidedly dumbasses. And irresponsible ones, at that. Or if they go hunting with Bobby Knight… ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/50 "2004-05-19T22:37:14Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > So you say that indeed they must run to the occupyers to ask permission to get married and celebrate it as they celebrate it. > > And you say that they must **know** that in the US there are no guns fired at a wedding. Well, I can tell you that many do not know that. Listen you little fucking piece of shit, show me exactly where I either said or implied this, or post a retraction. Because I’m fucking tired of your inability to comprehend not because you speak another language, but because you’re a goddamn idiot. I based my statements on the fact that firing weapons in celebration is ignorant IN AN OF ITSELF. US Military presence has nothing to do with it. You fire a gun in the air, you’re an idiot, regardless of your country of origin. > [@](#): > > You forgot the traditon to shoot off firework in private homes for celebrating the New year. Every year again people get killed and wounded by that. > > But that is OK… It is done in the West. Nope, that’s not okay either. It’s still ignorant. (And firing fireworks on New Year’s is less of a Western tradition as it is asian, but I’ll substitute “Fourth of July” and “outside” where needed.) ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/51 "2004-05-19T22:45:36Z")
Munch, Sorry, I don’t reply to posts containing vulgarities as you managed to bring together. If you can get over that strange habit that seems to have a life on its own wherever the English language is used, then we can have a discussion. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/52 "2004-05-19T22:48:35Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Dick Cheney and Antonin Scalia must be dumbasses then. I hear they recently spent several days shooting guns in the air! Lucky there weren’t any Apache helicopters around then–I can just hear President Bush now: “I offer my sincere condolences to the Scalia and Cheney families, but we are a nation at war …” This is a thoroughly dishonest post. You’ve pulled one sentence out of context and acted like it’s supposed to stand on its own. Surely you’re aware that **Shayna** was not talking about using guns under hunting conditions, which involves taking precautions to make sure you aren’t firing your guns somewhere that will hit someone else. In fact, **Shayna** was talking about merely firing guns wildly into the air while there are helicopter gunships about. Further, Scalia and Cheney were aware that there were not helicopter gunships about that could mistake their gunfire as hostile fire. If such helicopter gunships were around, I assure you that Scalia and Cheney would not have been firing their guns into the air. Maybe you should lay off the benzene for a while. > [@threemae](#): > > You wanna’ know what else is a stupid and ignorant tradition? The Fourth of July. What blows up is bound to cause a few injuries. Every year, all around the country, some little Timmy decides he wants to play with some M-80’s or other fireworks and blows off an arm or gets himself killed. And this is why many American municipalities have outlawed the private possession or use of fireworks. And I assure you that if we know that helicopter gunships are flying around, then I’d call it stupid to fire off fireworks, too. > [@threemae](#): > > By the same token, camp fires should be going out the window too. Campfires serve valid purposes, such as providing warmth and light, and keeping wild animals at bay. Celebratory firing of guns wildly into the air does not serve any such valid purpose. Moreover, we Westerners have a history of getting rid of our most stupid traditions. As I said before, the limits on the 4th of July are an example of making our reckless traditions more safe. So maybe we’re not the ones being arrogant and self-centered. If you think it’s more important to wave a stick in the air in celebration of a wedding than it is to make sure not to scare the bear sleeping next to you, then maybe you haven’t made the wisest choice. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/53 "2004-05-19T22:50:53Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Munch, > > Sorry, I don’t reply to posts containing vulgarities as you managed to bring together. > > If you can get over that strange habit that seems to have a life on its own wherever the English language is used, then we can have a discussion. > Salaam. A Believe me, I found your post far more offensive than I ever intended mine to be. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/54 "2004-05-19T22:52:24Z")
Why? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/55 "2004-05-19T22:53:34Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Munch, > > Who are you to decide what in an other people’s culture is “ignorant”? Someone with a brain in his head. You shoot a gun in the air, the bullets come back down. They come back down with a velocity sufficient to gravely injure or kill people. No matter what the situation is in the place where you are doing it, it’s an ignorant, criminally dangerous and damned stupid thing to do. I don’t see one reason why anyone with two brain cells together ought to respect a “tradition” which can have deadly consequences just because it’s widespread throughout a culture. This isn’t about arrogance, this is about common damned sense and logical thinking. “If I shoot guns into the air, someone might be seriously hurt or killed.” SHOULD generate a response of “I will not shoot guns in the air because I do not want anyone to be hurt or killed.” “If I shoot guns into the air while my country is being occupied by a military force which has made clear that it will use lethal force against any perceived threat, not only might someone be seriously hurt or killed by my bullets, I might be killed by that mlitary force.” SHOULD generate a response of “I will not shoot guns in the air because I do not want anyone to be hurt or killed and I don’t want to be killed.” Instead, we MAY HAVE had a group of people who decided “If I shoot guns into the air while my country is being occupied by a military force which has made clear that it will use lethal force against any perceived threat, not only might someone be seriously hurt or killed by my bullets, I might be killed by that mlitary force, BUT I want to do it and it’s “tradition” so I’ll do it anyway, damn the consequences.” I say “may have” because we still don’t know for certain that this even was a wedding. But even if it was, there is no justification for the behavior which was the direct cause of these people’s deaths. No gunshots = no military response = nobody dies. That ain’t rocket surgery. That’s 2+2=4 ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/56 "2004-05-19T22:56:57Z")
Tea Elle, You could join some others to go around in Iraq with with TV/Video/CD/diesel engine/diesel for preaching Your Way. Good luck to you too. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/57 "2004-05-19T22:59:39Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Tea Elle, > > You could join some others to go around in Iraq with with TV/Video/CD/diesel engine/diesel for preaching Your Way. > > Good luck to you too. > Salaam. A If you’re suggesting that Iraqis are ignorant of gravity, then \*\*\*you’re \* \*\* the arrogant one here. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/58 "2004-05-19T23:06:57Z")
No, I’m not… It is just besides the question of respecting their cultural habits. I need to get some sleep. See you later on this. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/59 "2004-05-19T23:08:40Z")
Anybody else think that the occupation violence in Iraq is invariably _ **indiscriminate** _ and _ **disproportionate** _?? Not the first time they indiscriminately shoot women and children, nevermind their excuse this time… ---
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2004, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997/60 "2004-05-19T23:15:30Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Nope, that’s not okay either. It’s still ignorant. (And firing fireworks on New Year’s is less of a Western tradition as it is asian, but I’ll substitute “Fourth of July” and “outside” where needed.) To your point, **Munch** , I’d go you one better. Western children hurt themselves with fireworks every year. This is sometimes fatal, and always tragic. Mrs. Chastain had a co-worker, a scientist, blow his head clean off his shoulders on July 4th about 4 years ago while shooting fireworks from a length of PVC tubing. He peered inside to see if the fireworks were still lit, and blammo. If an invading force of soldiers were in my country, combing the streets and countrysides looking for insurgents with guns, you better damn well be sure my kids wouldn’t be making noises that sound like gunfire. And they damn sure wouldn’t be pointing Roman Candles at soldiers. EVEN BY ACCIDENT. You want to know why? \*\*Because even if the invading soldiers didn’t have any right to be in my country, I would still understand the inherent danger in my actions. \*\* Even if they **are** culturally acceptable among my people. Some traditions are stupid, regardless of culture. I wouldn’t expect **Aldebaran** to acknowledge or accept that, but it’s true nonetheless. And parents who care about their children should fucking well know better. **Bottom line.** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sigh-us-chopper-fires-on-wedding-party-40-dead/245997.md?page=4)