# Sign stealing in baseball **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [January 13, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380 "2020-01-13T23:55:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/201 "2020-02-29T17:26:47Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That’s right. If you live in Vancouver, a distance of 3300 KM from Toronto, you are blacked out. Toronto now has the distinction of having the largest blackout area; that used to be the unenviable honor of the Mariners. > > Some places are even worse. If you live in Las Vegas you are blacked pout from seeing SIX teams - all five California teams, plus the Diamondbacks, meaning you are perpetually blacked out from 40% of all MLB games despite not being close to any MLB market. (LA is at least four hours away, hardly a trip you could make often.) > > This is true everywhere. You’re in southern Alabama? Braves, Rays and MArlins are blacked out. Des Moines? Fuck you, pal; you cannot see the Cubs, White Sox, Royals, Cardinals, Twins, or Brewers. Little Rock isn’t a reasonable drive to any MLB team, but you cannot watch the Rangers, Astros, Cardinals, or Royals. > > Oh, and you live in Hawaii, which is rather a difficult drive to any MLB market? You cannot watch any California team or the Mariners. I don’t understand this policy. What’s the rationale? ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/202 "2020-02-29T17:36:44Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t understand this policy. What’s the rationale? Probably more like an irrationale. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/203 "2020-03-02T14:13:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t understand this policy. What’s the rationale? Basically it’s that they would rather you buy the local cable package, which costs more. There is essentially zero evidence this works. I can tell you right now the Blue Jays blackout does not, to any degree whatsoever, make me want cable back. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/204 "2020-03-03T12:06:33Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Proportion? Fuck that. I want the team dissolved, every player, coach, executive and ball boy put to the sword, their property seized and reduced to bare, salted earth and their families sold into bondage in Canaan. > > Proportion that! I forget. Are you a dodgers fan? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/205 "2020-03-03T13:10:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Basically it’s that they would rather you buy the local cable package, which costs more. > > There is essentially zero evidence this works. I can tell you right now the Blue Jays blackout does not, to any degree whatsoever, make me want cable back. Ah okay. In that case I suspect that it’s their deal with the cable operators that require this. They must in balance get more money from their TV/cable contracts than they get from their own channel. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/206 "2020-03-04T13:35:40Z")
I posted upthread an article detailing ex-relief pitcher Mike Bolsinger’s lawsuit against the Astros. He claims their cheating ended his career. Here’s [a more in-depth piece](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2878408-the-high-cost-of-bad-intentions) describing how it wasn’t just Bolsinger but a number of other pitchers whose careers and earnings were scuppered by the Astro’s cheating. The damage extended beyond the players. Sadly, teams’ support staff also got cheated: > [@](#): > > “You win the World Series or go to Game 7 of the World Series, after taxes you’re getting a $250,000 or $300,000 check,” Anderson says. “That’s life-changing money for guys who work in the clubhouse. It can pay for your kid’s college or pay off a mortgage.” There is also some interesting ‘data’ regarding the trash can banging: > [@](#): > > While pitching for Toronto, [Bolsinger] was bludgeoned for four runs in one-third of an inning against Houston on Aug. 4, 2017. That was the last time Bolsinger pitched in the bigs. The Astros banged the trash can in a season-high 54 plate appearances in that game—including 13 bangs when Bolsinger was on the mound. > [@](#): > > Eight-year veteran starter Alex Cobb was ambushed by the Astros on July 31, 2017, in what by far was his worst outing of the best season of his career. But he recovered in time to sign a four-year, $57 million free-agent deal with Baltimore that winter. From the Orioles clubhouse this spring, he still shakes his head at the fate suffered by his close friend Chase Whitley that day. > > After Houston battered Cobb, then with the Rays, for eight earned runs and nine hits in three innings in a 14-7 Tampa loss, Whitley surrendered three runs on four hits over three innings. The Astros were whaling away at their trash can in a total of 28 plate appearances—including 20 bangs with Cobb on the mound and 19 more against Whitley. > [@](#): > > Cobb also points out how appalling it is that the Astros’ trash-can banging persisted even in the late innings of some blowouts, like the 16-7 Bolsinger game. > > “That’s the other thing: No mercy,” Cobb says. "They didn’t call it quits? Which shows they were looking to get their numbers padded. Guys are going for the MVP, going for arbitration, they want their numbers jacked up. It’s a lot of selfishness. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/207 "2020-03-04T16:16:22Z")
Just saw this ESPN headine (which I didn’t click on): “A-Rod: Fans are upset by Astros’ lack of remorse” A-Rod, arbiter of the moral universe. The mind reels. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/208 "2020-03-04T17:50:43Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Just saw this ESPN headine (which I didn’t click on): > > “A-Rod: Fans are upset by Astros’ lack of remorse” > > A-Rod, arbiter of the moral universe. > > The mind reels. A-Rod is a jerk, but if you _had_ read it, you would have seen: > [@](#): > > I served the longest suspension in MLB history. It cost me well over $35M. And you know what? I deserved that. It’s pretty clear that both players and fans aren’t too thrilled with the Astros players facing zero consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/209 "2020-03-04T18:23:40Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > It’s pretty clear that both players and fans aren’t too thrilled with the Astros players facing zero consequences. I think the zero consequences thing is understandable given the reality of getting people to talk. It’s the “we didn’t do anything wrong” attitude from the players that is charging up my desire to see a little chin music. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/210 "2020-03-04T20:38:45Z")
Anyone notice how the report on the Red Sox sign stealing investigation has kind of been quietly forgotten? Meanwhile, the Astros thing gets uglier by the day. It’s becoming increasingly apparent MLB only went halfway. And, as usual, going halfway and then having it explode in your face is way, way worse than getting it all out there to start with. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/211 "2020-03-05T00:15:54Z")
Give the Asterisks the NCAA “Death Penalty.” Take away all of their television, radio and the like. MLB can do it - “This game cannot be broadcast, etc. etc. without the _express written consent_ of Major League Baseball.” So don’t give it. Force them into a media blackout the game has never seen. Do they have a radio channel? DENIED. Tell ESPN and every other station that have a Houston game scheduled this season that they’d better plan on the back-up game. Force management to pony up the World Series share money to every single affected person - all the pitchers that never got called up or were sent down, all the staff of opposing teams that were banged against. Every fucking one of them should get share money, and it should come from the organization, not the owner’s pocket. THEN let them try to sign anybody for a few decades. They won’t be able to afford to keep the stadium lights on. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/212 "2020-03-05T00:33:23Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Give the Asterisks the NCAA “Death Penalty.” Take away all of their television, radio and the like. MLB can do it - “This game cannot be broadcast, etc. etc. without the _express written consent_ of Major League Baseball.” So don’t give it. Force them into a media blackout the game has never seen. Do they have a radio channel? DENIED. Tell ESPN and every other station that have a Houston game scheduled this season that they’d better plan on the back-up game. Force management to pony up the World Series share money to every single affected person - all the pitchers that never got called up or were sent down, all the staff of opposing teams that were banged against. Every fucking one of them should get share money, and it should come from the organization, not the owner’s pocket. THEN let them try to sign anybody for a few decades. They won’t be able to afford to keep the stadium lights on. I agree with this. The problem is that American professional Sports leagues aren’t real competitions. It’s not 30 different clubs competing with each other. It’s 30 clubs in collusion. Congress should revoke their antitrust exemption and require that they open up the leagues to any competitor that can field a team and institute relegation. Houston should be relegated for this and replaced by a club that didn’t cheat. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/213 "2020-03-05T01:05:40Z")
The high school I teach at has a pretty good baseball team this year, and we’ve put people into the majors. Let _them_ take Houston’s place! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2020, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/214 "2020-03-05T12:25:17Z")
if they were going to clear the Red Sox they would announce that . I assume they are still looking into it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/215 "2020-03-06T13:08:04Z")
Manfred is in a box. If the Red Sox are dirty, then he has to hand down the same punishment the Asterisks got. If he does that, he’s finished. The uproar will be too much. OTOH, if he hands down a greater punishment, the Sox will erupt. On the gripping hand, a lesser punishment will cause Houston to go nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/216 "2020-03-06T16:34:21Z")
And if Manfred had punished the Astros appropriately, the owners would have had his head. So I think he was in a non-winnable situation. Frankly I think the owners are being asses about this. No wonder baseball is struggling. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/217 "2020-03-06T16:46:51Z")
As much as I think MLB is screwing this up, I agree that blaming Manfred personally makes no sense. Manfred works for the owners, full stop; they tell him what to do. The idea of the commissioner as a semi-independent ruler has been nonsense since Fay Vincent. In any sense that matters, Vincent was the last commissioner of Major League Baseball. The job title may still exist but the role isn’t really that of a commissioner; the job has little real authority. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380.md?page=10)