# Sign stealing in baseball **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [January 13, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380 "2020-01-13T23:55:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/161 "2020-02-19T17:40:05Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > This scandal ain’t goin away, and the reason is that there’s not enough transparency. The blanket immunity guarantee was a mistake. They could have offered lesser penalties: a suspension for a few games as opposed to a year-long ban, but there’s no accountability and the rest of the players, teams, and fan-bases justifiably feel screwed. It is not clear that the players could have been punished even without the immunity. They could argue they were not informed of the restricted against electronic signalling (Astros management did not pass the memo down to the players) and that management supported their actions. The CBA also doesn’t detail any punishments. You could argue Manfred should have suspended them anyway even if an arbitrator would inevitably reverse them, but I understand why Manfeld didn’t go down that route. The big mistake by Manfeld is just how long they took to address this. If they took the initial complaints seriously and actrf then, much of this could have been avoided. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2020, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/162 "2020-02-19T18:43:41Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I heard an appropriate nickname for the Houston AL franchise - the Houston Asterisks. The Trashtros ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/163 "2020-02-21T03:56:06Z")
> [@](#): > > “Oh, after you make your money, after you get your ring, you decide to talk about it?” Ortiz said after arriving at the Red Sox spring training complex on Thursday. “Why didn’t you talk about it during the season when it was going on? Why didn’t you say, ‘I don’t want to be part of it?’ > > “So you’re looking like a snitch,” said Ortiz, who works for the Red Sox under the title special assistant. “Why do you have to talk about it after? That’s my problem. Why did nobody say anything while it was going on?” [Fuck off and shut the fuck up, Pappi.](https://apnews.com/75a7b3d2e7cd3409391e3ce083fed36b) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/164 "2020-02-21T04:05:16Z")
So, he wouldn’t have been a snitch if he said something about it in 2017? Fiers’s motivates for coming out are of no interest to me, anyway, and I doubt they are of interest to any baseball fan outside Houston. What matters is the cheaters. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/165 "2020-02-21T16:46:26Z")
I think it’s sad that nobody did anything until someone went to the press. The MLB got multiple complaints about the cheating and did nothing but send out a general “please don’t cheat” memo to managers. It took public embarrassment to force them to do something, and even that ended up being next to nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/166 "2020-02-22T21:24:07Z")
Little league is starting in my neck of the woods and I am reminded that when 12 year olds cheat we take away their title and their trophy, we ban their managers and league reps all the way up to the level that had (or should have had) knowledge of the cheating. The more I think about it, the more I think we ought to force a sale. If we’re serious about this, we ought to force a sale of the team. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/167 "2020-02-22T21:47:10Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The more I think about it, the more I think we ought to force a sale. If we’re serious about this, we ought to force a sale of the team. Can the Commissioner do that? Although (I think) he determines penalties for violations of the league’s rules and other ‘egregious’ behavior, I would bet the owner’s would not stand for such a move. In fact I doubt the league’s contractual obligations would even allow it. ETA: It has to be the Commissioner, no? I don’t think the other owners could force them out, again because of contractual obligations. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/168 "2020-02-23T01:27:55Z")
How did they get rid of Marge Scott? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/169 "2020-02-23T01:59:37Z")
The owners and commissioner pushed Marge Schott out of ownership of the Cincinnati Reds when she became too overtly racist. The NBA did the same to the Los Angeles Clippers guy. The owners can do it if they’re motivated. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2020, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/170 "2020-02-23T02:10:37Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Can the Commissioner do that? Although (I think) he determines penalties for violations of the league’s rules and other ‘egregious’ behavior, I would bet the owner’s would not stand for such a move. In fact I doubt the league’s contractual obligations would even allow it. > > ETA: It has to be the Commissioner, no? I don’t think the other owners could force them out, again because of contractual obligations. The commissioner works for the owners. He can’t force shit. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/171 "2020-02-24T02:12:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The owners and commissioner pushed Marge Schott out of ownership of the Cincinnati Reds when she became too overtly racist. The NBA did the same to the Los Angeles Clippers guy. The owners can do it if they’re motivated. Yes, it has to be something that really makes them look bad. So far this isn’t affecting the owners so they couldn’t care less. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/172 "2020-02-24T15:46:41Z")
It’s only Spring Training and the Astros are already stealing signs! > **[Fans heckling Astros at opener get signs taken](https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28760766/fans-heckling-astros-spring-opener-get-signs-confiscated)** > > Fans hoping to heckle the Astros at Houston's spring opener against the Nationals on Saturday had their signs taken away by someone who worked for the ballpark. They also played no regulars during their Grapefruit League road opener… > **[monumental sports network](https://www.monumentalsportsnetwork.com/washington/nationals/astros-wont-play-any-regulars-against-nationals-spring-training-opener)** …which is a rules violation. > **[MLB has fined teams for ST lineups; O's likely OK](https://www.camdenchat.com/2016/3/22/11279370/orioles-spring-training-road-lineups-fines)** > > Some teams have been fined by MLB for sending too many crappy players into the starting lineup on their road games. The O's haven't exactly been sending out star-studded rosters to road games, but they're probably OK. > [@](#): > > “A minimum of four players who were regulars on the previous year’s Major League team or who were platooned on the previous year’s Major League team on a regular basis, or who have a reasonable chance to be regulars on the Major League Club’s squad during the upcoming season should make road trips. Each of those regulars, excluding pitchers, must play a minimum of three complete innings.” My guess is they’ll skate on that one too. (It’s a minor violation and they would get a fine at most but still.) ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/173 "2020-02-24T15:57:23Z")
MLB is too busy with things that matter, like putting the Nike swoosh on the front of all the uniforms. ---
**Author:** ![JpnDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@JpnDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JpnDude)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/174 "2020-02-25T04:16:33Z")
Just imagine: What would happen if a pitcher on the mound against the Ass-tros had told the home plate umpire to “listen to the banging” before off-speed pitches were thrown. If the umpire noticed the pattern at the time during the game, what would he do? Stop the game? Batter is called out? File a complaint against Hou-stink? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/175 "2020-02-25T13:29:33Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s only Spring Training and the Astros are already stealing signs! > > [Fans heckling Astros spring opener get signs confiscated - ESPN](https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28760766/fans-heckling-astros-spring-opener-get-signs-confiscated) > They also played no regulars during their Grapefruit League road opener… > > [monumental sports network](https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/nationals/astros-wont-play-any-regulars-against-nationals-spring-training-opener) > …which is a rules violation. > > [Teams have been fined for spring training road lineups, but the Orioles are (probably) OK - Camden Chat](https://www.camdenchat.com/2016/3/22/11279370/orioles-spring-training-road-lineups-fines) > My guess is they’ll skate on that one too. (It’s a minor violation and they would get a fine at most but still.) What’s funny about not using any regulars for that"road" game is that the Nationals and Astros share the same spring training facility. The road trip involved walking from one end of the complex to the other. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/176 "2020-02-25T14:03:30Z")
> [@JpnDude](#): > > Just imagine: What would happen if a pitcher on the mound against the Ass-tros had told the home plate umpire to “listen to the banging” before off-speed pitches were thrown. If the umpire noticed the pattern at the time during the game, what would he do? Stop the game? Batter is called out? File a complaint against Hou-stink? That’s an interesting question because even if the umpire suspects something weird, what can he do? It’s a noise, and there’s no way he’s going to be able to identify what the hell it means or where it’s coming from. Umps have near-plenipotentiary power to do whatever they need to do to fairly enforce the rules, and in theory an ump could, say, toss someone in the stands who was relaying signs, or demand an obvious electronic system be stopped, or threaten to forfeit the game. In theory an ump could bring the hammer down. The Astros system would have been hard to stop, though, and in any case the evidence is they stopped doing it whenever someone raised a suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/177 "2020-02-25T15:00:24Z")
I think that would be too much to ask of the umpires to be looking for patterns in the noises from the dugout. They’re too busy looking for balks and getting ready to watch the results of the pitch or swing and all that. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/178 "2020-02-25T15:20:17Z")
And it’s not like MLB didn’t have any suspicions about the Astros, about a dozen teams had lodged complaints about them in the past couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/179 "2020-02-25T16:56:15Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > And it’s not like MLB didn’t have any suspicions about the Astros, about a dozen teams had lodged complaints about them in the past couple of years. To be fair, complaints have been lodged in the past couple of years against at least a third (maybe more) of the teams in the league. The Commissioner’s office wasn’t going to do anything to any team until it got out in the press in a form that couldn’t be dismissed or spiked. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380/180 "2020-02-27T14:37:26Z")
It’s both sad and reassuring that little league has more integrity than the MLB. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sign-stealing-in-baseball/846380.md?page=10)