# Signature gathering fraud for Massachusetts' anti-same sex marriage petition **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 24, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052 "2005-12-24T04:26:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/1 "2005-12-24T04:26:48Z")
Moderators: If there has already been a thread started for this, please lock this one. Since I am a resident of Massachusetts, this story has been in the news for the last few days (scroll down to the 6th paragraph): > **[Petition vs. gay marriage advances](http://archive.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/12/22/petition_vs_gay_marriage_advances/?rss_id=Boston%2BGlobe%2B--%2BCity%2FRegion%2BNews)** > > Backers of a constitutional ban on gay marriage in Massachusetts have shattered a 20-year-old record for the most certified signatures ever gathered in support of a proposed ballot question. Basically it states that paid “signature takers”, receiving one dollar per signature, said just about anything to get people to sign. The most common trick was telling people it was a petition to allow grocery stores to sell beer and wine. Anyway, I just wondered if other “Dopers” were aware of this story and what they thought about it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/2 "2005-12-24T04:33:45Z")
I’m not surprised. A similiar incident happened with that group of people who want to clean up TV. It was discovered that large percentage of the complaints were sent in by a small number of people who sent in multiple complaints about the same shows. Sad really. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/3 "2005-12-24T07:37:24Z")
I doubt that enough of the signatures could possibly be shown to be fraudulent to keep it from being legal. There are, in all likelihood, more than enough legitimate signatures to qualify. Hopefully, by the time it reaches the public, the continued lack of fire raining down from the heavens will have eroded any shot it might have of actually passing. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/4 "2005-12-24T08:10:54Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > I doubt that enough of the signatures could possibly be shown to be fraudulent to keep it from being legal. There are, in all likelihood, more than enough legitimate signatures to qualify. Hopefully, by the time it reaches the public, the continued lack of fire raining down from the heavens will have eroded any shot it might have of actually passing. Hey there, let’s not forgot all of those Cat. 5 hurricanes that slammed those godless hippies in Taxachusetts. I mean Southern states. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/5 "2005-12-24T15:19:22Z")
[www.Knowthyneighbor.org](http://www.Knowthyneighbor.org) contains a list of people who signed. This site has been catching a lot of animosity from bigots who thought they would remain anonymous. I have a few relitives I’m going to pay a visit to to get the straight dope on what they signed and why. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/6 "2005-12-24T19:10:25Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > [www.Knowthyneighbor.org](http://www.Knowthyneighbor.org) contains a list of people who signed. > > This site has been catching a lot of animosity from bigots who thought they would remain anonymous. > > I have a few relitives I’m going to pay a visit to to get the straight dope on what they signed and why. That website is brilliant. The names on a petition like this are all public record, right? Nothing like a little bright light to scare off the trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/7 "2005-12-24T19:45:12Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > That website is brilliant. The names on a petition like this are all public record, right? Nothing like a little bright light to scare off the trolls. One reason for the site is also so that people can search their own names to see if they were fraudulently included. ---
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/8 "2005-12-24T19:46:48Z")
Fuckin’ typical of the RRR though, isn’t it? They know that gay marriage has actually worked out pretty well in Massachussettes and, consequently, the locals probably aren’t quaking in their boots at the thought of their demented Marvel Action Jesus opening up a few cans of celestial whoop-ass to punish them for their Godlessness. So they turn to lies and forgery to get their way. Fuckin’ sleazy little bastards. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/9 "2005-12-24T20:31:24Z")
I like the idea of publishing the names of the signers. If you want to stir up trouble then by damn it let the world know who you are. _Also_, (and more importantly), it’s really handy to check if you have been fraudulently added to that list. Let’s face it. What’s to stop somebody from going through a phone book, “junk mail” list, _cemetery_ and forging a signature and address? In fact, I did visit that site to see if my name is on that list. Proud to say it isn’t. 🙂 I wonder if Michael Hunt or Richard Hertz signed that petition? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/10 "2005-12-24T20:39:13Z")
> [@Talon Karrde](#): > > One reason for the site is also so that people can search their own names to see if they were fraudulently included. Oh, to be sure. I’m all for exposing the fraudsters, too. I suspect it’ll also turn up people who agreed with the petition and now are afraid to say so publically. Any amusement I take from all this is entirely grim. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/11 "2005-12-24T20:47:58Z")
As well as the opposite. According to the linked article, Archbishop Sean O’Malley, who has led the Catholic Church in trying to browbeat all its parishoners into signing the petition couldn’t be bothered to do so himself. But, then, the Archdiocese has long had a history of “do as I say, not as I do.” ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/12 "2005-12-24T22:54:23Z")
Northern Ireland has had civil unions for almost a week…and you know what, the protestors stoped showing up after the first 3 days. At least some people have the grace to admit defeat… ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/13 "2005-12-25T00:44:03Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > [www.Knowthyneighbor.org](http://www.Knowthyneighbor.org) contains a list of people who signed. > > This site has been catching a lot of animosity from bigots who thought they would remain anonymous. Great. They had no idea public petitions are, well, public? Or were they ALSO misled about that? ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/14 "2005-12-25T04:02:53Z")
Come on, people! Read before you sign. Have you never heard of that before? I’ll admit I don’t do that with everything, but certainly I would at least skim for words like “will be allowed” or “will not be allowed” or “same-sex marriage” before signing anything from a complete stranger. Not that this excuses the dollar-a-signature people who were intentionally lying to signers or the company that asked them to do this. Anyway, hopefully this will teach people to read very carefully each separate paper that they are signing. Amazing. ---
**Author:** ![AThingWithFeathers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@AThingWithFeathers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AThingWithFeathers)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/15 "2005-12-25T04:14:48Z")
This reminds me of something my school’s Reality Check program did last week. They cleared out the hallway in front of the entrance and offered free hot chocolate to anyone who’d sign a petition against “positive” smoking in non R rated movies. Ironically, most of the people online were stoners. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/16 "2005-12-25T04:37:50Z")
> [@TJdude825](#): > > Come on, people! Read before you sign. Have you never heard of that before?. Did you look at the site? What they apparently did what having you sign a completely unrelated document, and then ask to sign a second time on the “copy” (showing only the part where you sign). The copy being of course the petition. So, having read the document doesn’t help, except if it crosses your mind to ask to check also the copy. I’m not sure many people would expect such a trick. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/17 "2005-12-25T04:49:22Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > I doubt that enough of the signatures could possibly be shown to be fraudulent to keep it from being legal. There are, in all likelihood, more than enough legitimate signatures to qualify. Hopefully, by the time it reaches the public, the continued lack of fire raining down from the heavens will have eroded any shot it might have of actually passing. It’s already qualified to be sent to the Legislature. Now, it must garner the support of at least 50 legislators in each of the next two sessions before it can be placed on the ballot. Given that the Legislature failed to pass the amendment when it was before them in the last session, given that a number of the amendment’s supporters were defeated in the last election and none of its opposers were, and considering that it got fewer votes on its second time through than it did on the first, chances of its garnering the necessary 50 is considered pretty slim from everything I’ve read. ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/18 "2005-12-25T04:50:00Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Did you look at the site? What they apparently did what having you sign a completely unrelated document, and then ask to sign a second time on the “copy” (showing only the part where you sign). The copy being of course the petition. So, having read the document doesn’t help, except if it crosses your mind to ask to check also the copy. I’m not sure many people would expect such a trick. I didn’t look carefully until after I posted. You’re right, but I still hope this makes people EXTRA careful. Anyway, is that kind of fraud punishable by massive fines or jail time? I hope so. > [@AThingWithFeathers](#): > > This reminds me of something my school’s Reality Check program did last week. They cleared out the hallway in front of the entrance and offered free hot chocolate to anyone who’d sign a petition against “positive” smoking in non R rated movies. Ironically, most of the people online were stoners. Was this a real petition or just a social demonstration? That sounds like bribery. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/19 "2005-12-25T05:08:37Z")
**TJDude825** > [@](#): > > is that kind of fraud punishable by massive fines or jail time? The irony is, if those folks do get jail time, they will probably end up in a same-sex “marriage” of sorts. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2005, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052/20 "2005-12-25T05:31:51Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > **TJDude825** > > The irony is, if those folks do get jail time, they will probably end up in a same-sex “marriage” of sorts. The irony is, that some people still think it’s funny to equate prison rape to homosexuals. Fuck you. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signature-gathering-fraud-for-massachusetts-anti-same-sex-marriage-petition/337052.md?page=2)