Billy Corgan and the Smashing Pumpkins are more keystone than Peal Jam. Don’t forget Alice in Chains coughpuddle of mudd cough, either.
Future generations will look back at the 90’s and see it as the time that rap went MAINSTREAM. case in point, the # of radio stations now catering to the genre, as well as % of MTV airtime now dedicated to rap.
However, the LEGACY that the nineties will leave is simple: Napster and the MP3.
Yes, and they will be duly punished.
Let me put my vote in for dance music, and the rise of club/rave culture.
Start of the nineties: acid house/rave culture starting to take off in a big way in the UK.
End of the nineties: dance music and rave/club culture is easily the largest youth movement ever in the UK and Europe. Pretty popular in the rest of the world too, and i believe it may have been starting to gain a foothold in the US as well.
Examples of genres that have branched off from the original acid house include various forms of house (progressive, deep, hard etc), various forms of techno, breakbeat, drum and bass, trance, big beat, hardcore, electronica. There are many more.
The mainstream in Europe is very influenced by dance music. Generally dance music is very innovative - constantly spawning off new genres and sounds. Some of these new genres become very successfull - i bet you’ve all heard of big beat (eg fatboy slim) and drum and bass. Some of them stay fairly underground.
This only applies in europe though, as far i know the US has never really embraced dance music like europe has. I guess hip hop would be by far the more influential genre over there.
Another vote for electronic-dance music being one of the main legacies of the 90’s. While there were the beginnings of the sound back in the 80’s (has anyone ever actually listened to the 80’s Ministry?) it really exploded in the 90’s, and continues to do the same today.
Rock music underwent a transformation, which saved it from melting down into mainstream pop. While you may not like Korn, Linkin Park, or Creed, if not for the grunge ‘movement’ and re-imaging of rock music, they wouldn’t be here.
Another vote for rap/hip-hop as well. While it started in the 80’s, the 90’s were what made it mainstream. rap/hip-hop is a strong genre that will continue to be around, although maybe not in the way Run DMC or Bobby Brown would recognize.
On a side note, it’s always interesting to see discussions of music… people that are open minded and accepting of anything, intelligent well rounded peope suddenly become dogmatic and strident about their music. Even here. Amazing.
I’ve changed my mind from what I said before. I think it’s perfectly fair to include genres like grunge, industrial etc as nineties music. They may have begun in the '80s, but they are mostly strongly associated with, and underwent their biggest development in the '90s.
After all, new-wave and synth pop are seen as undeniably eighties, but The Cars and Buggles were making music in the late seventies. Funk is seen as a '70s thing, but Sly Stallone and others were making music that was undeniably funk in the late '60s.
Grunge is '90s.
bjohn,
I have a couple bones to pick with you. I can’t understand how you are attributing the breakthrough success of RHCP’s BSSM album to the evolution of ska.
Also, Suicidal Tendencies were doing the Metal/Rap thing before Faith No More.
I think of electronic dance/rave culture as starting in the late 70’s with Joy Division who then became New Order. If I understand correctly, Tony Wilson the primary owner the Hacienda (and Factory records) would claim that the Hacienda and the Mad-chester sound were the birth of the rave culture.
I can’t forget Alice in Chains…they are one of my favorite bands. However, their early stuff (pre-Pearl Jam era) before the Facelift album sounds a lot like the hair metal that was so popular in the '80’s.
Some good points.
First of all, what came first? Faith No More’s first album Introduce Yourself or Suicidal Tendencies. I believe they came up at about the same time…Faith No More was more popular and, therefore, more influential. Suicidal Tendencies definitely had a lot of influence in the '90’s rap/metal scene. Faith No More made that music listenable to the masses.
As far as the RHCP…I know of two bands who are considered to be “ska pioneers” who directly attribute the RHCP as an influence (Sublime and No Doubt). While RHCP is not a ska band (I consider them to be more of a hard-funk-salsa band), there are some ska beats in the music. That Stevie Wonder remake from What Hits? is a good example (I can’t remember the name of the song, but I can hear the ska-ish guitar riff). They opened the doors for all sorts of blended music including the ska-punk revolution of the early '90’s.
You’re thinking of “Higher Ground”, originally on Mother’s Milk. Frusciante’s work on Higher Ground just sounds like funk guitar with heavy effects.
I can definately hear the pukish influence that the RHCP would have had on No Doubt and Sublime, but I don’t think thats were they get their ska. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but both ND and Sublime were playing back from the late 80’s before Mother’s Milk was even released.
I’d wager that their Ska Influences go back to the Two-Tone stuff from the early 80s.
I have no authority in the realms of Hip Hop or electronic music, so outside of those genres I cannot think of any really positive developments in Music in the 90’s. Grunge? Pearl Jam were okay. Nirvana influenced a million bands, but I challenge you to name even one that doesn’t suck. Rap-metal? er… Ska punk? Buncha crap if you ask me.
As always there were good bands and pockets of positive development, but none of them far-reaching from what I can tell.
Really, as far as the mainstream is concerned, have there really been any big developments since the beginnings of rap in the late 70’s? Everything else seems to be derivative. Which is okay, and perfectly normal, but doesn’t really live up to the word “significant.”
Well you could probably put electronic music further back than that if you tried. I’m not sure when Kraftwerk started, but wasn’t that early seventies?
What i’ve read is that rave/club culture basically started with a club called Shoom in London in 88, where they first combined electronic dance music and ecstasy. From here it rapidly spread over the country although the madchester thing didn’t happen until a bit later. I guess they could claim that the hacienda was there at the birth of rave culture, but it wasn’t the first by any means.
I think KMFDM is metal influenced as well and they are basically all electonica too. The presence or absence of guitars doesn’t mean that a given genre has “metal” in it or not. I would consider it metal because they are not noise, have a lot of distortion, and have riffs that would fit well into a metal song. Now you can take back your statement.
A few thoughts:
It is hard to judge what will be most influential from the 90’s because the generation that will be most influenced by that era - the next wave of young musicians - are just coming into their own. In other words, if “significant impact” = “influence”, then we need to see what the next wave of most respected and/or popular artists end up building off of from the 90’s.
What is tough about the 90’s is that it didn’t feel like there was any truly new genres developed, just new interpretations or blendings of existing genres. Think about it - before, we had:
1950’s - Rock n’ Roll
1960’s - Mainstreaming of rock, singer/songwriter, folk (Beatles, Dylan), more blues-based rock, psychedelia
1970’s - Punk, Disco, maybe even Country Rock (Eagles) and Corporate Rock
1980’s - New Wave (okay, bleed over from the 70’s), Rap/Hip Hop, Electronic, mainstream Hair Metal, indie/alternative (read “Our Band Could be Your Life” by Azerrad for a great overview of the indie scene)
At least 1 or 2 truly different genre’s per decade. With the 90’s, it is harder to say “well, this is a new style”
Grunge - blends indie/alt with a metal edge and punk mindset
Rap/Hip Hop - some Gangsta, some thoughtful (De La Soul, Tribe Called Quest, etc…), a lot of mainstream
Pop Boy/Girl bands - 'nuff said
Jam bands - Matthews, Phish, etc. - good, but not truly new.
Women in Rock - appears to be much more opportunity, which is great, and some of the music is great, but gender is not genre…
I guess I would also point, like gex gex to trip hop (Massive Attack, Morcheeba, Sneaker Pimps) and other electronica for the most New and Influential…
Yes…that is the song. The guitar in that song definitely has a ska rhythm. Funk and ska blend together quite well…but it’s the upstrokes (or offbeats) that make it ska. Of course, that is only an example. I’m not a huge Chili Peppers fan, so my knowlege isn’t that great…however:
The Chili Peppers debut album was in 1984. They played together for two years previous to that. I find it hard to believe that either No Doubt or Sublime was around before then.
Like the Chili Peppers…
Unless your referring to that “Jenny” song that Tommy Tuotone made so famous…you know…867-5309.
Seriously, though…you have made some good points. I had never even considered Suicidal Tendencies simply because I had forgotten about them. Other bands such as Testament and Megadeth need to be given some influential credit as well.
What I stated in my OP, however, were bands that I classify as the most influential simply because of the amount of musicians I know personally who give credit to them for influence. For me, those bands have been Lynard Skynard, Guns n’ Roses, The Who, The Beatles, Bob Dylan, Blind Melon, Johnny Cash, and Pearl Jam.
I threw in Pearl Jam last only because it is impossible for any “mainstream” rock musician in this day and age to not give some influential credit to Pearl Jam. Everything on the radio sounds like Pearl Jam. The Nirvana rave died down within a few years (Nirvana is the one Seattle grunge band that I simply cannot stand)…Layne Staley and Jerry Cantrell both gave influential credit to Pearl Jam and Soundgarden…
And I give a lot of credit to Soundgarden as well. I don’t veiw them as a particulary talented band, but they were a group of awesome songwriters. The helped pioneer the grunge phase. However, Pearl Jam is still alive and kicking…and still influencing the airwaves.
“Escape is never
The safest path.
Oh, a dissidence,
The dissident is here.”
-Vedder
We’ll have to agree to disagree about RHCPs version of Higher Ground. I don’t hear any ska in it at all. Also, I wasn’t saying that Sublime and No Doubt predated the Chilis, I was saying that in all likelyhood they were playing before Higher Ground (RHCP version) was recorded.
I don’t know if you were kidding or not about RHCP being part of the Two Tone scene, but they definately were not. Big players in that scene were The Specials, Selector, etc. A great compilation was released called “This are Two Tone”, I’m not sure if it is still in print but it is a great record and I’d recommend it to all.
we both agree that there will always be forms of a particular type of music that predates most of the publics perception of that music. By most influential, I usually assume that to mean the artist who was the first to gain enough of a following to become influential…and the artist whose influence has lasted the longest.
There are hints of ska in all of the Chili Peppers music…even from the early days of their self-titled album. We will probably always disagree with that…but I do know that the strumming patterns I use to play songs like “Higher Ground” and “Under the Bridge” are very similar to the ones Sublime regularly uses (I’m not a fan of either Sublime or No Doubt…but there was about a three year period where I simply could not escape their music).
I was kidding about the Two Tone scene…as it is a scene in which I am largely ignorant. My musical background comes from old Blues legends like Muddy Watters, Robert Johnson, and Ledbelly.
However…a point needs to be made. Bob Dylan did not invent folk music. However, he is widely considered to be one of the most influential folk musicians of all time.
Weezer.
Good Lord, man! In what alternate dimension??!!?
You might argue that the two bands share similar influences (lots of 1970’s riff rock), but I see no basis for the viewpoint that one influenced the other.
and:
No we won’t. The reason you don’t hear any ska in that song is because there isn’t any. It is, as you have said, a funk song.
Sorry, bjohn, but I think you’re hearing things. The Chili Peppers have used horn arrangements in some of their songs, but that doesn’t make them ska. The rhythm of the guitar in Higher Ground is a funk rhythm, not a ska one.
Weezer’s Nirvana influence is often commented on, particularly as it is seemingly at odds with Rivers Cuomo’s other influences like Cheap Trick, The Cars and Kiss. The Nirvana influence can be strongly heard on Pinkerton in particular; the dirtier guitar sound, the feedback drenched yet still melodic songs.
However, if you don’t like that example, I know for certain that Irish band Ash are heavily influenced by Nirvana (they even covered one of their songs for a b side) and they make great pop music.