# Significant intellectual or artistic accomplishments achieved under the effects of drugs or mania **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 22, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324 "2009-08-22T17:36:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/21 "2009-08-23T20:12:36Z")
Bear in mind, there’s a HUGE difference between writing/painting/composing WHILE high and writing/painting/composing on subjects experienced while high. Samuel Taylor Colerige’s “Xanadu” was inspired by things he saw during an opium dream. That doesn’t mean he could have written a coherent (let alone classic) poem about those visions while still high. Some Beatle lyrics were undoubtedly inspired by drugs- but the melodies came from Lennon and McCartney’s God-given talent. Music composed by drunk or stoned musicians is invariably crap. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/22 "2009-08-23T22:19:46Z")
weirdaaron writes: \> . . . astrologist . . . Say what? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/23 "2009-08-23T22:24:04Z")
Most of the great musical works of the late 60s early 70s. The thing to understand about hallucinogens is: 1. It’s quite difficult to write while on them, believe me I’ve tried. 2. Even if you write while sober the reality is that if you’re doing hallucinogens regularly you live in an altered state of consciousness that can last a long time after you stop doing them like months and years. ---
**Author:** ![wierdaaron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eada6e/32.png) [@wierdaaron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wierdaaron)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/24 "2009-08-23T22:25:37Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > weirdaaron writes: > > \> . . . astrologist . . . > > Say what? Astr..o..lo..dammit. I _knew_ I’d do the wrong one. For me, astronomy always sounded like the fake one and astrology sounds more real, because of the “logy” part. It’s psychology, not psychonomy. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/25 "2009-08-24T02:20:53Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > The book is a large one, and Kesey was obviously not high during each and every keystroke it took to write it, but the amount of psychedelic drugs he was using (by his own admission) was staggering-----LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, peyote, IT-290, ditran, morning glory seeds; these being just the ones taken as part of research at Veterans Hospital in Menlo Park (paid 75 dollars a day). > > Kesey was forthright about his use of psychedelic drugs and its profound effect on his writing-----“One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest” was a direct result of Kesey’s experiences working nights in a mental hospital (as an orderly) and using (both on and off-shift) copious amounts of LSD, among many other substances. Oh, no doubt the drug use and his job played a large role in inspiring the book, but, again, I don’t think he actually wrote it while high. My high school English teacher claimed that he had read an early manuscript of a chapter that WAS written when Kesey was high and that it was mostly incomprehensible nonsense (I don’t know how true this claim is though). ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/26 "2009-08-24T02:56:09Z")
> [@wierdaaron](#): > > It’s psychology, not psychonomy. Hmmm… I wonder if I can bill myself as a Psychonomist. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/27 "2009-08-24T03:36:00Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Music composed by drunk or stoned musicians is invariably crap. Perhaps. But it may be a different matter for (some) poets. I refer here to **Dylan Thomas** who, supposedly, was often totally soused when he put pen to paper. ---
**Author:** ![Winston\_Bongo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9adbd/32.png) [@Winston\_Bongo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Winston_Bongo)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/28 "2009-08-24T04:00:27Z")
Several of Philip K. Dick’s stories and novels (_The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch_ especially) were at least inspired by LSD trips. I recall reading in a bio that he would also pop amphetamines like candy in order to write for several days straight without sleeping. I think that was more about meeting a deadline than it was about addiction, though. Dick also qualifies under the “mania” category, as anyone who has read excerpts from his _Exegesis_ can attest. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/29 "2009-08-24T05:19:22Z")
No, in fact, Dick hadn’t tried LSD before he wrote _The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldrich_. It is true though that he wrote his books of the 1950’s and 1960’s while he was using amphetamines: > **[Philip K. Dick](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_K._Dick)** > > Philip Kindred Dick (December 16, 1928 – March 2, 1982), often referred to by his initials PKD, was an American science fiction writer. He wrote 44 novels and about 121 short stories, most of which appeared in science fiction magazines during his lifetime. His fiction explored varied philosophical and social questions such as the nature of reality, perception, human nature, and identity, and commonly featured characters struggling against elements such as alternate realities, illusory envir Bor... ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/30 "2009-08-24T10:52:49Z")
[**Homer’s** _magnum opus_](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=38764&highlight=mushrooms) and one of my favorite threads. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/31 "2009-08-24T11:53:42Z")
Julian Jayes wrote a book claiming something to the effect that all the epics of the classical age were composed by men who hallucinated out of the right side of their brains. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/32 "2009-08-24T12:01:31Z")
Pretty much everything creative Spike Milligan ever wrote was during mania or hypomania, and the world is a better place for it. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/33 "2009-08-24T12:39:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Julian Jayes wrote a book claiming something to the effect that all the epics of the classical age were composed by men who hallucinated out of the right side of their brains. A bit misleading i n this thread, especially since fewer people nowadays know who Julian Jaynes was. But he clearly wasn’t implying that any of them were on drugs when either composing their works, or being inspired to compose them. ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/34 "2009-08-24T13:10:25Z")
The Book of Revelations, and The Apocalypse. I don’t know what the writer was on, but it was strong stuff. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/35 "2009-08-24T13:20:03Z")
I came in to say Edgar Allen Poe but in checking before I see that actually that notion is now very much in debate. Surprising, that, as I’d always heard he was a frequent opium user. Perhaps not. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/36 "2009-08-24T13:43:41Z")
For an overview of creativity and its relationship to bipolar disorder, I recommend Kay Redfield Jamison’s [Touched with Fire: Manic-Depressive Illness and the Artistic Temperament](http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Fire-Manic-Depressive-Artistic-Temperament/dp/068483183X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251121213&sr=8-3), in which she examines the work of artists known to have had or believed to have had bipolar disorder, like Byron and Van Gogh, and through her own perspective as both a psychiatrist and a sufferer explains how the disorder enhances and hinders creativity. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/37 "2009-08-24T15:16:04Z")
> [@ianzin](#): > > The Book of Revelations, and The Apocalypse. I don’t know what the writer was on, but it was strong stuff. Nitpick (everyone gets it wrong): it’s the Book of Revelation. No “s” at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Night\_so\_be\_it](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b2d939/32.png) [@Night\_so\_be\_it](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Night_so_be_it)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/38 "2009-08-24T16:05:19Z")
As far as writing is concerned, I very much doubt anything of any lasting artistic merit has ever been written while high or drunk. Brilliant and esteemed writers who happen to be alcoholics rarely, if ever, mix their alcoholism and their writing. Example: Faulkner. Definitely an alcoholic; never wrote while drunk. I’m sure the same applies to Joyce, Fitzgerald and any other writer of genius who happened to be an alcoholic. Please don’t cite any dreadful Doors lyrics, or the nonsense of the beat ‘poets’ as counter-examples. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/39 "2009-08-24T22:19:03Z")
> [@Night\_so\_be\_it](#): > > As far as writing is concerned, I very much doubt anything of any lasting artistic merit has ever been written while high or drunk. The previously mentioned Dylan Thomas was ratarsed when he wrote. And Brendan Behan was twatted too. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324/40 "2009-08-24T22:25:46Z")
Not entirely intellectual nor artistic, but [Dock Ellis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doc_ellis)of the Pittsburgh Pirates did throw a no-hitter while on a LSD trip. > [@](#): > > “I can only remember bits and pieces of the game. I was psyched. I had a feeling of euphoria. I was zeroed in on the (catcher’s) glove, but I didn’t hit the glove too much. I remember hitting a couple of batters and the bases were loaded two or three times. The ball was small sometimes, the ball was large sometimes, sometimes I saw the catcher, sometimes I didn’t. Sometimes I tried to stare the hitter down and throw while I was looking at him. I chewed my gum until it turned to powder. I started having a crazy idea in the fourth inning that Richard Nixon was the home plate umpire, and once I thought I was pitching a baseball to Jimi Hendrix, who to me was holding a guitar and swinging it over the plate. They say I had about three to four fielding chances. I remember diving out of the way of a ball I thought was a line drive. I jumped, but the ball wasn’t hit hard and never reached me.”[ ETA: I really wish that game could have been captured on video. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/significant-intellectual-or-artistic-accomplishments-achieved-under-the-effects-of-drugs-or-mania/507324.md?page=3)