# Signing contracts, names, and symbols...
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411
**Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
**Created:** [May 5, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411 "2009-05-05T13:21:17Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/1 "2009-05-05T13:21:17Z")
Although not directly involved, I would have thought this column a perfect chance to reference the famous contract dispute involving “The Artist Formerly Known as Prince.”
[Does it matter if you sign a contract with a name that’s not your own?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2864/does-it-matter-if-you-sign-a-contract-with-a-name-thats-not-your-own)
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [May 5, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/2 "2009-05-05T15:11:13Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#):
>
> Although not directly involved, I would have thought this column a perfect chance to reference the famous contract dispute involving “The Artist Formerly Known as Prince.”
>
> [Does it matter if you sign a contract with a name that’s not your own?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2864/does-it-matter-if-you-sign-a-contract-with-a-name-thats-not-your-own)
Hah. This was a quickie. I simply didn’t think of it.
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### Author:  [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/3 "2009-05-06T02:59:57Z")
I read the recent column and came to this:
Any symbol executed or adopted by a party with present intention to authenticate a writing counts as a signature, and in some cases a letterhead or billhead satisfies the signature requirement.
So lets say, I didn’t want to be held to a contract or an agreement, but I was being pressured or something and just wanted to get the hell out of a situation and signed it falsely with a wrong name or even “I don’t agree”.
I don’t “present intention to authenticate a writing” I just don’t want to do whatever I feel like I’m being coerced to do, so write such a statement on the line
Is it a valid contract or agreement and am I bound by it?
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### Author:  [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/4 "2009-05-06T03:02:12Z")
> [@Sigene](#):
>
> I read the recent column and came to this:
>
> Any symbol executed or adopted by a party with present intention to authenticate a writing counts as a signature, and in some cases a letterhead or billhead satisfies the signature requirement.
> So lets say, I didn’t want to be held to a contract or an agreement, but I was being pressured or something and just wanted to get the hell out of a situation and signed it falsely with a wrong name or even “I don’t agree”.
>
> I don’t “present intention to authenticate a writing” I just don’t want to do whatever I feel like I’m being coerced to do, so write such a statement on the line
>
> Is it a valid contract or agreement and am I bound by it?
You are always free to present evidence that you did not actually agree to the contract. But simply signing a false name won’t necessarily do the trick. Saying on the signature line “I am not agreeing to this contract” would be difficult to confuse for an acceptance. 😃
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### Author:  [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/5 "2009-05-06T03:45:37Z")
If you can show you were coerced into the contract, you will get relief even if you have signed with your own name.
Conversely, if you can’t show that, you will be in trouble no matter how you have signed.
But, of course, you could argue that the odd signature was evidence which corroborated your story of coercion - “why else would I sign ‘Napoleon Bonaparte’, except to let those thugs think for a minute or two that they had what they wanted, so I’d have a chance to get the hell out of there?”
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### Author:  [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/6 "2009-05-06T03:48:36Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#):
>
> You are always free to present evidence that you did not actually agree to the contract. But simply signing a false name won’t necessarily do the trick. Saying on the signature line “I am not agreeing to this contract” would be difficult to confuse for an acceptance. 😃
The only thing to add to this is that formation is judged according to an objective standard — would a reasonable third person, on the basis of the outward acts of the two contracting parties, conclude that an offer has been made and accepted. _See, e.g., [Lucy v. Zehmer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_v._Zehmer)_.
Not all contracts need to be written, so if the contract were formed before the agreement was reduced to writing, you may be on the hook regardless of what mark you make at the bottom of the page. Assuming that the signature moment is contemporaneous with concluding the bargaining, a fake name may or may not get you off the hook. Obviously, things like “Not Accepted” suggest a lack of acceptance. Most people, I think, would agree that signing something like “Mike Litteris” or “Hugh Jass” or “Biggus Dickus” would also scuttle any claim to the reasonable appearance of acceptance (again, assuming that the contract had not already been made earlier).
On the other hand, if your name is, say, “Vivian Darkbloom” and you sign all other documents “Vivian Darkbloom” but you sign this one as “Vyvyan Dark-Bloom” I think it is a vastly more difficult case to prove that you were plainly not being serious.
Coercion is always a defense, whether you sign a fake name, your real name, or under oath before a notary.
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/7 "2009-05-06T04:08:57Z")
I merged the thread called signing a contract incorrectly into this one because they were about the same topic.
**Gfactor**
Moderator
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/8 "2009-05-06T04:38:01Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#):
>
> Most people, I think, would agree that signing something like “Mike Litteris” or “Hugh Jass” or “Biggus Dickus” would also scuttle any claim to the reasonable appearance of acceptance (again, assuming that the contract had not already been made earlier).
This is a good point. I’ll add, that as we can have oral contracts, contracts can be accepted by conduct. E.g., C.J.S. \*Contracts \*§ 48
and see, _In re The Score Board, Inc._, 238 B.R. 585 (D.N.J. 1999) (part performance and acceptance of benefits were adequate to satisfy the offer and acceptance requirements of contract formation.)
> [@](#):
>
> `[T]he manifestation of mutual assent is usually had by an offer and an acceptance either in words or by conduct.'' *Johnson & Johnson v. Charmley Drug Co., *11 N.J. 526, 538, 95 A.2d 391 (1953); *Weichert*, 128 N.J. at 436, 608 A.2d 280. (`An offeree may manifest assent to the terms of an offer through words, creating an express contract, or by conduct, creating a contract implied-in-fact’‘). ``[C]onduct may take the place of written or spoken words in the formation of contracts[.]’’ Johnson & Johnson, 11 N.J. at 539, 95 A.2d 391. In order for there to be an operative accep- tance by acts or conduct, the offeree’s assent to the offer, according to its terms,
> must be unequivocally shown. _Id._ at 538-39, 95 A.2d 391.
and \*Tubelite Co., Inc. v. Original Sign Studio, Inc., \* 176 Ohio App.3d 241, 891 N.E.2d 820 (conduct by both parties that recognizes the existence of a contract is sufficient to establish a contract for the sale of goods.)
But see, _Beretta v. Tucson Trap & Skeet Club_, 2007 WL 5556383 (Ariz. App. 2007) (offeror may require acceptance by signature, in which case oferee cannot accept by other means).
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2009, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/9 "2009-05-06T06:22:27Z")
I was being released after four weeks from the mental health unit of one of Nashville’s largest and most reputable hospitals. The woman in bookkeeping was asking me to sign an agreement to pay the hospital \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ amount of money for my stay. The space was literally blank. I told her I was crazy, but not _that_ crazy. She pretended to be indignant that I wouldn’t sign the agreement.
Now I had very good insurance that would be taking care of all but 10% of the bill. But wasn’t this woman abusive to try to get me to sign such a contract under the circumstances? Should she have been reported? The father of one of my best friends was on the Board of Trustees for the hospital.
This was all thirty years ago, so you won’t be affecting anyone’s destiny with your answer.
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### Author:  [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/10 "2009-05-06T19:40:35Z")
I am not a lawyer, but I would think that “blank amount of money” would fail under the “meeting of the minds” rule whether signed or not.
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### Author:  [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/11 "2009-05-06T21:48:00Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#):
>
> I am not a lawyer, but I would think that “blank amount of money” would fail under the “meeting of the minds” rule whether signed or not.
Prove it was blank when you signed. :eek:
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### Author:  [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)
#### Post date: [May 6, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/12 "2009-05-06T23:32:33Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#):
>
> I am not a lawyer, but I would think that “blank amount of money” would fail under the “meeting of the minds” rule whether signed or not.
Another strategy that might work (might not) would be to fill in some more or less reasonable amount (mark it “not to exceed” -?) - and let the clerk go through whatever hassle of explaining to her bosses why she tried to get you to sign a blank check; failed to do so; and is still wasting time on this. This will at least be some hassle to her that she won’t easily escape. You’re not, after all, being absolutely unreasonable about it. But nope, INAL.
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### Author:  [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/13 "2009-05-07T01:02:53Z")
I never sign my paychecks, I just write “For deposit only” on them, and deposit them into an ATM. I was thinking today, what if I did that with a “check” where you’re also agreeing to sign up for some kind of service\*? Could I argue that I never agreed to their service (maybe I honestly never noticed the small print)?
- I remember this mostly from when Sprint and MCI were just entering the phone business ~25 years ago, but I think I’ve seen more recent examples.
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### Author:  [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/14 "2009-05-07T14:47:18Z")
Those checks state that cashing the check is considered agreeing to the service. Ergo, your signature is not required.
**Civil Guy** said:
> [@](#):
>
> Another strategy that might work (might not) would be to fill in some more or less reasonable amount (mark it “not to exceed” -?) -
Write in $12, then sign it. She can’t hassle you for not signing, and if she complains, tell her to come back when she knows how much the cost will be and you will consider it then.
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [May 7, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/15 "2009-05-07T14:53:47Z")
> [@Irishman](#):
>
> Those checks state that cashing the check is considered agreeing to the service. Ergo, your signature is not required.
And see my post about acceptance by conduct.
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### Author:  [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/16 "2009-05-08T00:08:08Z")
> [@Irishman](#):
>
> Those checks state that cashing the check is considered agreeing to the service. Ergo, your signature is not required.
> [@Gfactor](#):
>
> And see my post about acceptance by conduct.
Don’t both of those answers hinge on my knowing that these “checks” have the service agreement on them? If someone thought they were just checks, and had no idea they were service agreements, I don’t see how these apply.
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### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/17 "2009-05-08T16:19:55Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#):
>
> Don’t both of those answers hinge on my knowing that these “checks” have the service agreement on them? If someone thought they were just checks, and had no idea they were service agreements, I don’t see how these apply.
It’s a bit more complicated than that. I’m not sure we are talking about the same thing, either. What sort of “check” are you talking about?
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### Author:  [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/18 "2009-05-08T16:43:49Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#):
>
> Don’t both of those answers hinge on my knowing that these “checks” have the service agreement on them? If someone thought they were just checks, and had no idea they were service agreements, I don’t see how these apply.
Not really. First, there are only so many opportunities to hide “catches” on a document like a check. It’s no great burden to peruse the front and the back of a check, so you’d have a difficult time establishing to a judge or jury’s satisfaction that your overlooked this notice.
More importantly, the above is coupled with the fact that you collected an otherwise unearned payment of $25. When the hot dog cart vendor hands you a dog and you take and eat it, it is no defense to say he didn’t say “You have to pay for this, you know.” Likewise, here, with notice on the check and your receipt of an actual benefit, it will be tough to claim that the contract was not accepted.
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### Author:  [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/19 "2009-05-08T18:28:06Z")
I have a related question.
I sign documents with my first and last name. I was signing some legal documents which listed my full name, including middle, and they insisted that I sign using my middle initial. I said that (a) that wouldn’t be my customary “legal” signature, (b) my signature isn’t legible enough to prove whether my middle initial is in there or not, and © it doesn’t matter anyway.
I finally decided it wasn’t worth my time to argue the point and just signed it their way, but I’ve been wondering since then whether I was right.
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### Author:  [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)
#### Post date: [May 8, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/signing-contracts-names-and-symbols/495411/20 "2009-05-08T18:32:39Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#):
>
> I have a related question.
>
> I sign documents with my first and last name. I was signing some legal documents which listed my full name, including middle, and they insisted that I sign using my middle initial. I said that (a) that wouldn’t be my customary “legal” signature, (b) my signature isn’t legible enough to prove whether my middle initial is in there or not, and (c) it doesn’t matter anyway.
>
> I finally decided it wasn’t worth my time to argue the point and just signed it their way, but I’ve been wondering since then whether I was right.
Yes. You were right. As to both the legal effect of signing without your middle initial and the relative worth in arguing it with someone who has a magic-spells-and-rituals understanding of how the law works.
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