# Sikhs sue to join U.S. military without cutting hair **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 15, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sikhs-sue-to-join-u-s-military-without-cutting-hair/493181 "2009-04-15T15:40:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sikhs-sue-to-join-u-s-military-without-cutting-hair/493181/61 "2009-04-17T03:11:55Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > … as long as being black or gay… Your analogy is wrong. Black/gay= !choice. cut hair = choice. Just because your grand poobah says not to cut your hair to be part of his group shouldn’t over ride our grand poobah’s desire to have your hair cut to be part of our group. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sikhs-sue-to-join-u-s-military-without-cutting-hair/493181/62 "2009-04-17T04:25:58Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Racism has subsided quite a lot in the ranks of the military while homophobia runs rampant (at least it did when I was in the Army). Racism subsided after the military was forced to treat blacks equally. I’d expect the military could adapt in the same way with regards to homosexuals. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sikhs-sue-to-join-u-s-military-without-cutting-hair/493181/63 "2009-04-17T04:54:24Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Your analogy is wrong. > > Black/gay= !choice. > cut hair = choice. > > Just because your grand poobah says not to cut your hair to be part of his group shouldn’t over ride our grand poobah’s desire to have your hair cut to be part of our group. The only analogy I intended was between being gay and being black. I was responding to **FoieGrasIsEvil** ’s implied criticism of gays openly serving in the military, not to the topic of mandatory haircuts. Basically we were off on our own tangent. Sorry for the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sikhs-sue-to-join-u-s-military-without-cutting-hair/493181/64 "2009-04-17T09:11:35Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I don’t think it’s a double standard at all, as women are free to shave their heads too. 😕 The double standard is that women _don’t have to_ shave their heads. > [@](#): > > The uniform standards are different for men versus women, and so are the defined roles within the military. And for the most part, that’s as it should be. Besides the fact that women are (stupidly) barred from serving in combat arms (infantry, artillery, SF, etc.), there are not separately defined roles for men and women in the military. Women can do everything that men can do, up to and including dying for their country. If it doesn’t affect _their_ job to grow their hair out, it won’t affect a man’s job either. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sikhs-sue-to-join-u-s-military-without-cutting-hair/493181/65 "2009-04-17T10:03:54Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Haircut regulations are silly and pointless. If women can wear long hair, why can’t men? Just because women can wear hair longer than men doesn’t mean there aren’t limits. I’m pretty sure that if I joined the military I’d have to cut off at least some of my very long hair, and sikh men usually have hair even longer than mine. At some point I expect hair regs for women will come in line with those for men - there’s really no reason for the doubestandard other than societal inertia. > [@](#): > > That said, I don’t think the Sikhs should get any special favors, I just think the regulation in question should be abolished. The short hair on soldiers has a couple of reasons for existing. At some point in the past soldiers started trimming their hair and shaving their beards to give adversaries in hand-to-hand combat less to grab hold of in a fight. There are also hygiene issues, in that is it MUCH easier to keep a brush-cut clean and free of nasty in the field than to take care of long hair. Sure, during an actual battle no one is going to be cutting hair or shaving, but battles don’t last long enough (usually) for hair or beards to grow to significant lengths. The regulation isn’t in place _just_ to annoy people. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sikhs-sue-to-join-u-s-military-without-cutting-hair/493181/66 "2009-04-17T10:11:24Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > I’m pretty sure most dietary regulations are accommodated in all but the most extreme circumstances. On the other hand, while I know vegetarian MREs are provided, I’m not sure about kosher or halal. Isn’t vegetarian food automatically kosher, etc? No. As an example, my understanding is that an MRE manufactured on Saturday would not be kosher regardless of contents. Certain food additives are not kosher. Again, as an example, cochineal dye, which is a common enough food additive, is never kosher due to its origins. “Kosher” is more than just simply “not pork”. We have Jewish Dopers who would be better at explaining in detail the ins and outs of kosher food. I am not as familiar with the halal regulations. > [@](#): > > I saw a Jewish chaplain once wearing a camouflaged yarmulke, but I don’t think your average, everyday Jewish soldier is allowed to wear one. The requirement is for Jewish men to keep their _head covered_ not to wear a specific head covering. A yarmulke is sort of a “minimum required” thing, but any hat, helmet, or artfully draped giant leaf snatched from the local foliage would meet that requirement. Thus, the average soldier’s helmet, beret, or other head adornment would in every way meet the requirement for a Jewish man. ---
**Author:** ![CutterJohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@CutterJohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CutterJohn)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sikhs-sue-to-join-u-s-military-without-cutting-hair/493181/67 "2009-04-17T10:22:06Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > What I meant by that is don’t you think that an openly gay (particularly gay male) would polarize his unit? Suffer abuse? Be a distraction? No. MM2 Smith(name changed) was a guy in my division on the ship. Nice guy, popular, sarcastic as hell in a funny way, and a damned good mechanic. He was also gay, and nobody gave a shit. He got kicked out because someone reported him, and he responded truthfully. If we had ever found out who did, it would not have been pretty, and anyone who thought it was a good idea very wisely kept that to themselves. You can argue that that did polarize the unit, but only because the rule existed in the first place. If gay men could openly serve, then those idiots would have had to tolerate it and keep quiet. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sikhs-sue-to-join-u-s-military-without-cutting-hair/493181/68 "2009-04-17T13:59:22Z")
> [@CutterJohn](#): > > No. MM2 Smith(name changed) was a guy in my division on the ship. Nice guy, popular, sarcastic as hell in a funny way, and a damned good mechanic. He was also gay, and nobody gave a shit. He got kicked out because someone reported him, and he responded truthfully. If we had ever found out who did, it would not have been pretty, and anyone who thought it was a good idea very wisely kept that to themselves. > > You can argue that that did polarize the unit, but only because the rule existed in the first place. If gay men could openly serve, then those idiots would have had to tolerate it and keep quiet. To be fair, you are relating an incident from the _Navy_…right? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sikhs-sue-to-join-u-s-military-without-cutting-hair/493181/69 "2009-04-17T17:48:15Z")
“… there is no cannibalism in the … Navy, absolutely none, and when I say _none_, I mean there is a certain amount.” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sikhs-sue-to-join-u-s-military-without-cutting-hair/493181/70 "2009-04-17T18:54:33Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > I’m sure it would be funny if I got it. 😃 Is it a reference to that disabled kid from South Park? Yeah, I don’t know anything about him either except to play his song from Rock Band 1, and that his catch phrase was “livin’ a lie”, thus the reference to your post, and serendipitously, your username. (btw, I was at my half-brother’s wedding, whose name is also tim and he had it be known that he _had_ been getting tired of all the Timmy references, so consider this your deflowering :)) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sikhs-sue-to-join-u-s-military-without-cutting-hair/493181.md?page=3)