# Silliest Foodie Item, Idea, or Trend? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 16, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533 "2013-02-16T20:04:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/161 "2013-02-19T00:49:17Z")
> [@Tapiotar](#): > > Before a good highway system, refrigerated trucks, and reasonably-priced shipping by air, seafood was a very rare treat for most people. Ocean fish also has much higher iodine content than freshwater fish [cites](http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=iodine+content+freshwater+fish+vs+saltwater+fish&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8), so people not living near a coastline had fewer opportunities to get fish. The great abundance of cheap fresh or fresh frozen seafood we have now was uninmaginable even a few decades ago. Yet even now, how many people eat fish more than once a week? (I’m sure 10 posters will jump up to say “I do! I do!” but the fact is that most people don’t.) And as my links showed, fish isn’t that great a source of iodine, anyway. (I mentioned that my friend with goiter relied on her fish-heavy diet to protect her.) ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/162 "2013-02-19T01:30:16Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Yet even now, how many people eat fish more than once a week? (I’m sure 10 posters will jump up to say “I do! I do!” but the fact is that most people don’t.) I’m pretty sure nobody here is claiming to get all of their iodine from fish. > [@](#): > > And as my links showed, fish isn’t that great a source of iodine, anyway. (I mentioned that my friend with goiter relied on her fish-heavy diet to protect her.) It depends on the fish. According to [this](http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002421.htm) cite, a 6oz portion of ocean fish gives you about 5 times as much iodine as the recommended daily allowance, and 3 times more than a half-teaspoon of iodized salt. That site also recommends getting your iodine from a balanced diet, not just salt. The other thing this research has failed to take into account when trying to explain the outbreak of goiter in the 1920s is the amount of goitrogens we consumed as a nation. We ate about 3 times as much cabbage then as we do now, for example. On top of all that, a lot of people who cook with pickling, kosher or sea salts also keep a salt shaker full of iodized salt on the table. Regardless, there is no evidence which shows that the popularity of sea salt is in any way associated with goiter, that I’ve seen. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/163 "2013-02-19T01:58:49Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > It depends on the fish. According to [this](http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002421.htm) cite, a 6oz portion of ocean fish gives you about 5 times as much iodine as the recommended daily allowance, and 3 times more than a half-teaspoon of iodized salt. That site also recommends getting your iodine from a balanced diet, not just salt. What your cite actually says is: > [@](#): > > Most people are able to meet the daily recommendations by eating seafood, **iodized salt** , and plants grown in iodine-rich soil. **When buying salt make sure it is labeled “iodized.”** From my [earlier link](http://www.nutralegacy.com/blog/general-healthcare/natural-sources-of-iodine-full/): > [@](#): > > Decent sources of iodine can be found in many types of fish. Haddock, for example, contains around 150 mcg of iodine (one teaspoon of iodized salt contains 400 mcg). Dairy products can have between 25 to 70 mcg of iodine. Keep in mind that most foods do not naturally contain iodine. Remember that you should increase your iodine consumption if you eat lots of foods that contain goitrogens, such as cabbage, soybeans, peanuts, and turnips. These goitrogens can make it harder for the body to process iodine. As your cite notes, the US adult RDA of iodine is 150 mcg. So if you eat a serving of haddock, you are covered _for that day_. But most people aren’t eating fish every day. And other dietary sources of iodine provide much smaller portions of the nutrient. If you aren’t consuming iodized salt, you may well be falling short of your required intake. (And pardon me if I keep coming back to my “healthy-eating” friend as an object lesson. People should know that this is not just theoretical.) ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/164 "2013-02-19T02:07:18Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > What your cite actually says is: > > From my [earlier link](http://www.nutralegacy.com/blog/general-healthcare/natural-sources-of-iodine-full/): > > As your cite notes, the US adult RDA of iodine is 150 mcg. So if you eat a serving of haddock, you are covered _for that day_. But most people aren’t eating fish every day. And other dietary sources of iodine provide much smaller portions of the nutrient. If you aren’t consuming iodized salt, you may well be falling short of your required intake. (And pardon me if I keep coming back to my “healthy-eating” friend as an object lesson. People should know that this is not just theoretical.) Again, nobody is claiming that fish is their only source for iodine. A cup and a half of milk, or a little more than one serving of yogurt has a day’s recommended allowance. Also, my cite says exactly what I claimed it did, under recommendations. And again, there has been no correlation shown between the rise in sea salt and any increase in goiter. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/165 "2013-02-19T02:23:41Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > A cup and a half of milk, or a little more than one serving of yogurt has a day’s recommended allowance. No, that’s not true. A cup of milk has 56 mcg of iodine. You’d have to drink three cups to get your RDA of 150. An egg has 12 mcg. Half a can of tuna has only 17 mcg. [Cite](http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/iodine/). And these are the _good_ sources of iodine. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/166 "2013-02-19T02:30:05Z")
I’ve had just about enough of the coffee and tea snobs. The ones who claim that if you’re not grinding your own beans you shouldn’t bother, or insist that beans from somewhere are better than those from somewhere else. And if you’re from the UK and complaining about American tea I’ll give you a pass, but if you think the temp of the water matters or that it just simply must be loose leaf then you need to settle down. For a lot of people coffee and tea are just hot morning wake-me-up drinks. Dude, just make my beverage, pour it into the handy paper cup, and hand it over. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/167 "2013-02-19T02:41:34Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > No, that’s not true. A cup of milk has 56 mcg of iodine. You’d have to drink three cups to get your RDA of 150. > > An egg has 12 mcg. > > Half a can of tuna has only 17 mcg. > > [Cite](http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/iodine/). > > And these are the _good_ sources of iodine. No, they aren’t. You skipped yogurt and white fish, which can have 650 micrograms. [This source](http://m.jcem.endojournals.org/content/89/7/3421.full)has an actual study behind it. You’re cherry picking again, and you’re still overstating your case. And you’ve yet to provide any correlation, or causation, between the rise in popularity of sea salt and thyroid issues. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/168 "2013-02-19T03:39:22Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > [This source](http://m.jcem.endojournals.org/content/89/7/3421.full)has an actual study behind it. And yet another of your sources notes the risk of iodine deficiency and recommends iodized salt: > [@](#): > > Overall, our findings, although based on small and nonrandom samples, suggest that U.S. iodine nutrition may remain an area worthy of public health concern. It is clear that there is a wide amount of variation in the iodine content of some common foods. Iodine content of foods is not well reflected by package labeling. There needs to be increased awareness of the importance of adequate iodine nutrition, particularly during pregnancy and lactation, among the U.S. public. Accurately identifying iodine content on food package labels would facilitate this process. Women of childbearing age should be encouraged to use iodine-containing multivitamins. Currently, many prenatal vitamins and other multivitamin preparations do not contain iodine. **Salt iodization has been the mainstay of iodine deficiency prevention programs in countries around the world, and use of iodized salt should continue to be promoted in the United States**. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/169 "2013-02-19T03:49:05Z")
You’re cherry picking again. Every study recommends iodized salt, but they don’t acknowledge whether or not it is vital to iodine intake. That cite noted that it has always been impossible to tell where the majority of Americans’ iodine intake is from, and that there are numerous sources for iodine other than iodized salt. Again, you haven’t demonstrated a correlation between the the popularity of sea salt and any thyroid issues. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/170 "2013-02-19T03:53:48Z")
No, nor did I set out to prove it. Rather, I sought to warn of the likelihood of thyroid problems if people abandon iodized salt. If you choose to disregard that danger, well, good luck to you. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/171 "2013-02-19T04:00:29Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > For me it’s the obsession with locally produced foods. While I have no problems with supporting local farmers and growers, I live in a largely rural food production area with a fairly wide variety of crops grown. It’s entirely unrealistic for anyone in a major urban area to expect that more than a tiny minority of their foodstuffs can be sourced from within an arbitrary mile limit Says who? Unless you live somewhere that’s totally not conducive to farming and ranching, you can probably get a large part of your vegetables locally grown. Granted, you’ll have to get them in season, but what’s wrong with that? Here in Dallas, from farms within 150 miles or so, I can get locally raised pork, beef, lamb and chickens and all sorts of locally grown vegetables, and certain types of local fruit (peaches, blackberries, apples, pears, strawberries), as well as all sorts of prepared items (salsa, cookies, bread, etc…). It’s more expensive, but I do it for 2 reasons, none of which is silly foodie reasons, I think. First, I figure if I’m going to buy food, I’d rather pay a local farmer who I can get to know and trust, rather than some nameless people God knows where, and second, it’s usually fresher and/or picked at a better point of ripeness, because it doesn’t have to travel as far and/or spend as long in the supply chain. I don’t think there are really any environmental advantages- it’s not necessarily organic, and I’m sure there are fuel and other economies of environmental scale that make the grocery store more friendly in many ways. And at any rate, I’m buying local for practical reasons like freshness and knowing where my food’s from, not for idealistic reasons like environmentalism, so I’m not so concerned. That’s not to say that I don’t buy 80% of my food at the local Kroger, Trader Joe’s, HEB Central Market or Wal-Mart. I just like going to the farmers’ markets when they’re in-season. And, thank you, **Max the Immortal**! I appreciate the gourmand label vs. “foodie”- it’s both more accurate, and just sounds cooler to boot! ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/172 "2013-02-19T04:07:05Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > And I threw it up there because it’s just _such_ a softball on a message board like this one. I’m not much of a cocktail guy (I like my liquors straight), but the few places I’ve been to where “mixology” was taken quite seriously have been incredible. I apologize…it was likely due to me not adding enough table salt to your drink. Sorry about the goiter…it was not intentional. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/173 "2013-02-19T04:08:28Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > No, nor did I set out to prove it. Rather, I sought to warn of the likelihood of thyroid problems if people abandon iodized salt. If you choose to disregard that danger, well, good luck to you. You did a bit more than that, claiming that those who use sea salt are ignoring certain dangers. I don’t agree. Look, you came at it a little high. Still, I remember you as a really great poster, one who leans on science, and who might have something on this topic if you started a thread in GD entitled “Are we collectively neglecting our iodized past”. No joke, I’d argue that iodized salt needs a new PR guy. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/174 "2013-02-19T04:28:59Z")
Spoke did NOT ever make any claim that you are saying he made. He said that if you choose not to eat iodized salt, you should probably have your doctor monitor your iodine levels on occasion, or make a concerted effort to get it from other sources. How is that exactly unwise or untrue or “coming at it a little high?” Spoke is absolutely right anyway. There is no reason to avoid iodized salt and you should use it as frequently as possible. I eat 25 spoon fulls 3 times a day! ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/175 "2013-02-19T04:34:03Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > You did a bit more than that, claiming that those who use sea salt are ignoring certain dangers. I don’t agree. But I did not come without evidence. I presented a case study of the very phenomenon I’m warning against: a health-conscious pesco vegetarian who eschewed iodized salt and developed a goiter. Admittedly an anecdote is not conclusive evidence, but it is evidence. And it certainly proves that you cannot blithely abandon iodized salt without running this risk. I am unaware of any studies comparing the thyroid health of those who use sea salt exclusively (with its low levels of iodine) with the thyroid health of those who use iodized salt. Until such studies are conducted, we have to look at anecdotes, and we also have to be informed by our nation’s history, particularly bearing in mind our epidemic of goiters before we began to iodize salt. I hope folks will think carefully about these nutritional concerns before they switch to sea salts. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/176 "2013-02-19T04:59:49Z")
And **Labrador Deceiver** , I’m not trying to pick a fight with you or keep one going. I respect your views. You and I just disagree about the risk level here. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/177 "2013-02-19T05:00:11Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > Spoke did NOT ever make any claim that you are saying he made. He said that if you choose not to eat iodized salt, you should probably have your doctor monitor your iodine levels on occasion, or make a concerted effort to get it from other sources. > > How is that exactly unwise or untrue or “coming at it a little high?” Because that’s not all he said. > [@](#): > > Spoke is absolutely right anyway. There is no reason to avoid iodized salt and you should use it as frequently as possible. I eat 25 spoon fulls 3 times a day! Nobody has claimed that iodized salt should be avoided. Anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/178 "2013-02-19T05:04:52Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > But I did not come without evidence. I presented a case study of the very phenomenon I’m warning against: a health-conscious pesco vegetarian who eschewed iodized salt and developed a goiter. Admittedly an anecdote is not conclusive evidence, but it is evidence. And it certainly proves that you cannot blithely abandon iodized salt without running this risk. > > I am unaware of any studies comparing the thyroid health of those who use sea salt exclusively (with its low levels of iodine) with the thyroid health of those who use iodized salt. Until such studies are conducted, we have to look at anecdotes, and we also have to be informed by our nation’s history, particularly bearing in mind our epidemic of goiters before we began to iodize salt. > > I hope folks will think carefully about these nutritional concerns before they switch to sea salts. Nobody is arguing for sea salts as a total substitute for iodized salt. That’s the issue in this thread. Regardless, you haven’t provided any causal relationship between the use of sea salt and thyroid issues. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/179 "2013-02-19T05:14:09Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Says who? Unless you live somewhere that’s totally not conducive to farming and ranching, you can probably get a large part of your vegetables locally grown. Granted, you’ll have to get them in season, but what’s wrong with that? > > Here in Dallas, from farms within 150 miles or so, I can get locally raised pork, beef, lamb and chickens and all sorts of locally grown vegetables, and certain types of local fruit (peaches, blackberries, apples, pears, strawberries), as well as all sorts of prepared items (salsa, cookies, bread, etc…). > > It’s more expensive, but I do it for 2 reasons, none of which is silly foodie reasons, I think. First, I figure if I’m going to buy food, I’d rather pay a local farmer who I can get to know and trust, rather than some nameless people God knows where, and second, it’s usually fresher and/or picked at a better point of ripeness, because it doesn’t have to travel as far and/or spend as long in the supply chain. > > I don’t think there are really any environmental advantages- it’s not necessarily organic, and I’m sure there are fuel and other economies of environmental scale that make the grocery store more friendly in many ways. And at any rate, I’m buying local for practical reasons like freshness and knowing where my food’s from, not for idealistic reasons like environmentalism, so I’m not so concerned. > > That’s not to say that I don’t buy 80% of my food at the local Kroger, Trader Joe’s, HEB Central Market or Wal-Mart. I just like going to the farmers’ markets when they’re in-season. > > And, thank you, **Max the Immortal**! I appreciate the gourmand label vs. “foodie”- it’s both more accurate, and just sounds cooler to boot! As you admit, even though you can get a wide range of locally grown produce, you still end up buying 80% of your food from big chain stores. The people I’m criticising would argue that that’s not acceptable. Which is of course a fantasy. Could you local farmers’ market supply your entire community’s food needs? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2013, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533/180 "2013-02-19T12:29:49Z")
> [@Labrador\_Deceiver](#): > > Nobody is arguing for sea salts as a total substitute for iodized salt. That’s the issue in this thread. Regardless, you haven’t provided any causal relationship between the use of sea salt and thyroid issues. 1. Iodine is required for thyroid health. 2. Without iodized salt, your diet may or may not provide you with enough iodine. (See American history. See my “healthy eating” friend and her goiter.) 3. Dietary sources of iodine are spotty at best. Most people don’t eat ocean fish every day, or even drink milk every day. 4. Processed foods and fast foods don’t generally contain iodized salt. 5. If you give up iodized salt at home, or find yourself frequently using sea salt instead, you are giving up an important (and recommended) source of iodine. What am I missing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silliest-foodie-item-idea-or-trend/650533.md?page=10)