# silly dedication to one's political beliefs (Bush related) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 26, 2004, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896 "2004-07-26T04:43:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mentor\_and\_Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mentor_and_Liar)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/61 "2004-07-27T16:22:04Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Unsupported conjecture, ie a brazen Lie. > > **rjung** , you are a Liar. Oh please, New Iskander, rjung was simply using a figure of speech; metaphorical, and hyperbolic. Surely you understood what he meant, compare it to me saying you have your head up your butt. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/62 "2004-07-27T18:11:45Z")
**Equipoise** wrote > [@](#): > > I see what you mean, but I don’t think it’s as temporal as you do. Historians will have a field day with this time in history, and “Bush lied” will be just as true in 100 years as it is now. Future generations will learn about this time in history in school, and they will be, quite rightly, appalled. > > Even if we lose in November, it’s important for the protesters to speak up, loud and clear, for the historians, so those future generations will know that some of us tried to say something. They’ll be as incredulous as we are at those people who are Bush apologists, and who are apathetic and uncaring. I think they’ll give thumbs up to us, the way we give thumbs up to those who defied McCarthy. And I see what you mean as well. But I suspect in 100 years, people won’t care much about the protesting that happened over this issue. In fact, they probably won’t care much about Bush, anymore than people do today about William Taft from 100 years ago. On the other hand, in 100 years something will exist in the world that doesn’t exist today, and wouldn’t have existed if Bush wouldn’t have taken steps to create it, and that’s a better Iraq, inhabited by a free people. Now, is Bush some great hero for making this happen? well, no. Could he have orchestrated it better? yes, of course. But there is another side to this, one that is not apathetic and uncaring, and in fact one that actually wants a better world. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/63 "2004-07-27T18:21:33Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > On the other hand, in 100 years something will exist in the world that doesn’t exist today, and wouldn’t have existed if Bush wouldn’t have taken steps to create it, and that’s a better Iraq, inhabited by a free people. I’d like to think so, but I haven’t had any of that RNC Koolaid yet. Looks like you’re on your third glass … ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/64 "2004-07-27T18:49:41Z")
To **rjung** apologists: Nothing doing. If **rjung** feels free to scream “BSH LYD” every time he discovers any mistakes in Bush words, I feel free to state “rjung is a Liar” when I catch him pushing unsupported conjectures as a statement of fact. Unless, of course, _friend_ **rjung** will present an exonerating evidence that he is a person of lower moral stature and thus deserves to be held to a less lofty standard. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/65 "2004-07-27T19:00:57Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > **Equipoise** wrote > > And I see what you mean as well. But I suspect in 100 years, people won’t care much about the protesting that happened over this issue. In fact, they probably won’t care much about Bush, anymore than people do today about William Taft from 100 years ago. Really? You think? I think this time period will always be remembered. Does no one care about the protesting that happened over Vietnam, now? Does everyone just remember that we stopped the spread of the eeeeevil communism? What is Vietnam most remembered for? And as much as I’d like to believe it, I’d bet donuts to dollars Bush will _never_ be forgotten. I firmly believe he’ll be proudly displayed in the President’s Hall O’ Shame, where he _belongs_. Trust me though, a president as contraversial as Bush will never _not_ be cared about. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/66 "2004-07-27T19:06:53Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > To **rjung** apologists: > > Nothing doing. > > If **rjung** feels free to scream “BSH LYD” every time he discovers any mistakes in Bush words, I feel free to state “rjung is a Liar” when I catch him pushing unsupported conjectures as a statement of fact. > > Unless, of course, _friend_ **rjung** will present an exonerating evidence that he is a person of lower moral stature and thus deserves to be held to a less lofty standard. If you truly believe that **rjung** ’s hyperbolic comment about Osama bin Laden was being presented as “a statement of fact,” then you must respond as you see fit. But if you _do_ truly believe that, then i suggest that it says more about your own intelligence than about **rjung** ’s comment. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/67 "2004-07-27T19:15:42Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > On the other hand, in 100 years something will exist in the world that doesn’t exist today, and wouldn’t have existed if Bush wouldn’t have taken steps to create it, and that’s a better Iraq, inhabited by a free people. Talk about yer unsupported conjectures … The historical pattern in countries with domestic chaos and no tradition of popular control is that they get taken over by military or quasi-military strongmen, who then often become dictators. We can \*hope \* as you do that there will be no new Saddam come to power in Iraq, but experience tells us we’d better \*expect \* otherwise, especially given the way Bush has conducted this invasion and occupation with no realistic forethought to preventing it. And what **lezlers** said. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/68 "2004-07-27T19:24:12Z")
> [@lezlers](#): > > What is Vietnam most remembered for? As America defeate? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/69 "2004-07-27T19:27:00Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > As America defeate? In English, please. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/70 "2004-07-27T19:54:01Z")
> [@Mentor and Liar](#): > > I’ll allow you to retract that statement, in the mean time–I’ll bet your SUV runs Windows. All right, but only with the understanding that the SUV is my wife’s. 😉 Heck, the plates even say so… ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/71 "2004-07-27T19:57:31Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > If **rjung** feels free to scream “BSH LYD” every time he discovers any mistakes in Bush words, I feel free to state “rjung is a Liar” when I catch him pushing unsupported conjectures as a statement of fact. Oh, please do! I’ll have you looking like a total dipstick inside of a week, if you can uphold your end of the bargain! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/72 "2004-07-27T22:07:17Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Oh, please do! I’ll have you looking like a total dipstick inside of a week, if you can uphold your end of the bargain! 😃 Is it “Bring it on!” I hear? Hey, what about all your putrid Lies about ObL running loose about Afghanistan and laughing at US? Care to provide a cite, you blustering Liar, you? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/73 "2004-07-28T03:17:44Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Is it “Bring it on!” I hear? Hey, what about all your putrid Lies about ObL running loose about Afghanistan and laughing at US? Care to provide a cite, you blustering Liar, you? …and all the intelligent conservatives of the SDMB wince. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, in 100 years something will exist in the world that doesn’t exist today, and wouldn’t have existed if Bush wouldn’t have taken steps to create it, and that’s a better Iraq, inhabited by a free people. First of all, I sincerely hope that you’re right. However, I’m skeptical. But the real question is not what Iraq will look like 100 years from now. It’s what the whole world will look like 100 years from now. Even on the off chance that Iraq itself is better, what about the damage that has been done to the US through Bush’s actions, in terms of lives and money wasted, and good will squandered? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/74 "2004-07-28T06:13:01Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Is it “Bring it on!” I hear? Hey, what about all your putrid Lies about ObL running loose about Afghanistan and laughing at US? Go for it, dude. 🙂 Round up everyone you know, have them read my message and your response, then let them decide who’s being an idiot. (_Hint:_ it ain’t me 😃 ). ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/75 "2004-07-28T15:43:34Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > May i introduce you to the [word](http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=hyperbole&x=0&y=0) of the day: You take that _hyperbole_ definition, put it back in the dictionary and stuff that dictionary up your _cloaka_ until it starts to tickle your _larynx_. Hyperbole needs to based on facts, however remotely. For Bush to say that Saddam is a menace to the World may be a hyperbole, because it is based on documented fact that Saddam was a mass-murderer and a menace for millions of people. For **rjung** to say that Osama is running loose in Afghanistan and laughing at US is a stinking Lie, pure and simple, because it is not supported by a single documented fact. **rjung** is a stinking Liar, pure and simple. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/76 "2004-07-28T15:59:23Z")
**New\_Isk** , I have no idea what you think your’re accomplishing here, but if you look around this thread, you may note that not a single person except yourself appears to have taken **rjung** ’s comment about bin Laden as fact. So really, you might as well take a break from the hair-splitting now, because _it’s a non-issue_. BTW, where do you think Osama isat the moment, and what do you think he is doing? Me, I think he’s at the Gap store in the Woodlands Mall right now, trying on prewashed denims. Guess I’m a liar, too. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/77 "2004-07-28T16:25:37Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > **New\_Isk** , I have no idea what you think your’re accomplishing here, but if you look around this thread, you may note that not a single person except yourself appears to have taken **rjung** ’s comment about bin Laden as fact. I know full well that very few people ever take **rjung** comments seriously. However, is that the best argument you can advance in **rjung** ’s defence? That **rjung** is a well known habitual Liar, whom no one is taking seriously? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/78 "2004-07-28T17:13:18Z")
> [@](#): > > I know full well that very few people ever take rjung comments seriously. However, is that the best argument you can advance in rjung’s defence? That rjung is a well known habitual Liar, whom no one is taking seriously? Hey, if you really insist on pounding your head on cement, I won’t stop you. But I should point out that a) IMO no sensible person would interpret the statement you seem so upset about as a lie, so you can’t really keep calling it one and sound like a sensible person; b) I am not so much defending **rjung** , who is perfectly capable of doing so himself, as pointing out the extreme silliness of your position; c) at no point have I said that **rjung** is a habitual liar, or, indeed, a liar at all. Thus, under the rules of discourse that you seen to want to establish here, you are in fact the liar here. So now that we have established, without a shadow of a doubt, your total lack of acquaintance with integrity, perhaps we can move on. Or you can continue repeating the word ‘liar’ over an over again in the vain hope that someone will actually take _you_ seriously. Your choice. Anyway, back to a considerably more interesting issue: I’m still curious, since you are making such a federal case out of this: is it your position that bin Laden is nowhere near Afghanistan? Is it your position that he could not possibly be (metaphorically speaking), laughing at the US for its failure to capture him? Here’s your chance to actually contribute some thoughtful comment here. Try not to blow it. ---
**Author:** ![Daisy\_Mae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@Daisy\_Mae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daisy_Mae)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/79 "2004-07-28T18:42:21Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Gee, and here I thought it was the 100,000+ American servicemen plopped in Iraq with big bulls’-eyes on their backs, **while Osama Bin Laden is running around Afghanistan laughing his head off.** :rolleyes: > > Leave it to a Bush apologist to dismiss the lives of our troops and the safety of the nation as “silly dedications.” Wait just a minute. Am I to understand that someone thinks the part above (bolded) is to be taken literally?? They think **rjung** actually believes Osama bin Laden is running around Afghanistan a la Forrest Gump (back and forth, back and forth) laughing his head off??? I wish! Surely if that were the case, even Dubya (with his keen fighting skills honed from Vietn… oops) would be able to find him. Imagine the crowd he’d draw. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896/80 "2004-07-28T18:54:15Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Hey, if you really insist on pounding your head on cement, I won’t stop you. But I should point out that a) IMO no sensible person would interpret the statement you seem so upset about as a lie, so you can’t really keep calling it one and sound like a sensible person; b) I am not so much defending **rjung** , who is perfectly capable of doing so himself, as pointing out the extreme silliness of your position; c) at no point have I said that **rjung** is a habitual liar, or, indeed, a liar at all. Thus, under the rules of discourse that you seen to want to establish here, you are in fact the liar here. Oh, don’t deter **New Iskander** from his holy crusade; his posts are the funniest thing I’ve read on the SDMB all week. Why spoil the fun? 🙂 As for me, I’m breaking out the Coca-Cola, popping some popcorn, and waiting for the next performance. Maybe **New Isk** will demand that I fax him the proof-of-purchase for my Jiffy-Pop… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-dedication-to-ones-political-beliefs-bush-related/256896.md?page=5)