# Silly etiquette question; refusing to play when your opponent is too far ahead of you. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 27, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956 "2012-03-27T15:59:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/61 "2012-03-27T21:52:05Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Relevant part bolded. That makes a difference, you see. There really is a significant difference between quitting the game the moment it looks like you might not win, and conceding the game when it becomes clear you _cannot_ win. > > You mentioned not being familiar with conceding defeat in chess, but tipping over the king to signal resignation is in fact a well-known gesture. You are confused. I did not at any point mention chess in any of my earlier posts and I am quite familiar with the notion of one player conceding when the other player is assured of victory. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/62 "2012-03-27T21:54:39Z")
> [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](#): > > You are confused. I did not at any point mention chess in any of my earlier posts and I am quite familiar with the notion of one player conceding when the other player is assured of victory. I may not have been clear in my post. **Leaffan** responded to your post. I quoted your post to him and pointed out the relevant bit, then continued speaking to him about chess. I did not address you directly. ---
**Author:** ![Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/63 "2012-03-27T21:58:31Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > Did you read my whole post? > > Some games the end state is the only real point and each turn is only in service of that, and knowing you can’t win makes each turn not fun or challenging. > > But there are many games where the entertainment value comes from the actual game play itself, and “winning” the game is just an arbitrary point to keep the game from lasting forever and give players a benchmark. > > If you were in some sort of competitive fishing contest, you might quit if you were losing badly. But if you are on a fishing trip with your friends, the point is that you enjoy the fishing, not that you get the most fish. Leaving the trip because your friends caught more fish is ridiculous and completely missing the point. > > If you are playing solely to compete, then fine, bow out. But I think it’s silly to only play competitively games which have much deeper gameplay than the competitive aspect. If you are only concerned with the competitive aspect than you should only play games where that is the sole or primary feature. Fishing with my friends is not a competition. If I am fishing with my friends, which I do often, it is because we enjoy each other’s company and want to drink beer. Nobody is keeping score as to who has caught the most fish. And when we had somebody doing things like that–pointing out that he was such a great fisherman that he had caught more fish than anybody else all the time – we stopped inviting him or accepting his invitations because he was ruining the day for everybody else. Also I think you are the one who did not read my post. If the game is so lopsided that only one of the parties is enjoying themselves, then why continue it? What is wrong with the losing person saying “Hey it is clear that this match is going your way no matter what I do so I concede that you are the winner?” ---
**Author:** ![Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8dc957/32.png) [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Christopher_Robin_Davies)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/64 "2012-03-27T21:59:49Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I may not have been clear in my post. **Leaffan** responded to your post. I quoted your post to him and pointed out the relevant bit, then continued speaking to him about chess. I did not address you directly. I see. It would have been nice if you had specified who you were talking to but I am not perfect so I will just assume you were making a mistake. No problem. Edited to add: I think I was unnecessarily harsh when I responded to you before so I wanted to edit in a better apology. Sorry if I offended you. Didn’t mean to. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/65 "2012-03-28T00:39:11Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I think refusing to quit when your situation is hopeless is the childish thing. Characterizing a game which you are not winning as a “situation which is HOPELESS” is… being rather dramatic. It’s a game. It’s for fun. If you can’t enjoy any aspect of the game except for winning it, I feel sad for you. It’s ok not to like Scrabble, but that’s no way to live your life. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/66 "2012-03-28T00:54:13Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Point taken. I’m not going to beat a dead horse. C’mon Slugger! The game’s not over yet! 🙂 I just asked my husband his opinion on this, and he is leaning towards not quitting in general, but he does admit that there are situations where you can and do concede defeat and it’s not unsportsmanlike (he also gave the example of curling). I wonder if it’s kind of a guy thing - that you must always play to the end? I have no problem saying, “Yup, you beat me fair and square. Let’s watch a movie!” when it’s clear I have no chance of winning. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/67 "2012-03-28T01:03:32Z")
> [@Christopher\_Robin\_Davies](#): > > If the game is so lopsided that only one of the parties is enjoying themselves, then why continue it? What is wrong with the losing person saying “Hey it is clear that this match is going your way no matter what I do so I concede that you are the winner?” I don’t think it’s wrong in a purely competitive game. I just think its silly to play a game that is primarily a creative one, with a minor or arbitrary competitive aspect, if you are only interested in the competitive aspect, and your opponent is heavily into the creative aspect. Then you inevitably set yourselves up for a conflict of interest, and also you cheat yourself by not bothering to find enjoyment in all the game has to offer. With primarily competitive games it’s fine, because it’s the game itself that is flawed by losing entertainment value for players that are behind, rather than the player for not playing the game to its full potential. Imagine if people quit halfway through bowling! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/68 "2012-03-28T01:04:39Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Characterizing a game which you are not winning as a “situation which is HOPELESS” is… being rather dramatic. It’s a game. It’s for fun. If you can’t enjoy any aspect of the game except for winning it, I feel sad for you. It’s ok not to like Scrabble, but that’s no way to live your life. The OP talked about games when it’s no linger even theoretically possible to win. That’s what I call hopeless, and it has nothing at all to do with not enjoying the game except for winning it. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/69 "2012-03-28T01:06:57Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > The OP talked about games when it’s no linger even theoretically possible to win. That’s what I call hopeless, and it has nothing at all to do with not enjoying the game except for winning it. You seem to be saying two completely opposite contradictory things. If winning is not the only enjoyable thing, then how is not being able to win hopeless? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/70 "2012-03-28T01:06:58Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > C’mon Slugger! The game’s not over yet! 🙂 > > I just asked my husband his opinion on this, and he is leaning towards not quitting in general, but he does admit that there are situations where you can and do concede defeat and it’s not unsportsmanlike (he also gave the example of curling). I wonder if it’s kind of a guy thing - that you must always play to the end? I have no problem saying, “Yup, you beat me fair and square. Let’s watch a movie!” when it’s clear I have no chance of winning. Still not doing the masochistic, necrophiliac, equestrian thing. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/71 "2012-03-28T01:22:09Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > You seem to be saying two completely opposite contradictory things. If winning is not the only enjoyable thing, then how is not being able to win hopeless? I give up. You win. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/72 "2012-03-28T02:56:09Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I give up. You win. Hey, wait a minute… ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/73 "2012-03-28T05:11:32Z")
> [@BetsQ](#): > > . . . I enjoy both the competition of the overall game, and the challenge of each individual move. I’d be irritated if my opponent kept resigning in the middle of the game, no matter who was winning. > > Besides, you never know when you’re going to be able to make a 100 point word. This! I often play Scrabble against people who are VASTLY better than I am. I take my comfort in lesser triumphs, and in merely doing my best. If they aren’t bored by winning so easily, then I don’t really have any complaint. (Usually, they’re the ones who don’t want to play with me any more, because I’m no challenge. So it goes!) There is also a kind of pleasure to be found in playing defensively. I sometimes call it “Managing the Disaster.” (Playing shuffleboard on the Titanic!) I set myself personal goals. Can I make at least one 25 point play in this game? Can I at least play this obnoxious “Z” tile? Can I keep the other guy off the Triple Word square? I may lost, but I’ll try to do it with some panache! (How many points for that word?) ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/74 "2012-03-28T05:21:30Z")
Invoke the mercy rule, the skunk rule, or whatever. Otherwise it is really bad form–but when it gets to the point where you don’t have a chance, declare a winner, resign, etc. (Note that this does not apply to team sports.) This has just reminded me of a guy I used to HATE playing bridge with. The reason I hated it was, if he or his partner won the contract, the opponents wouldn’t get to make more than a couple of leads and then he would have the game all figured out and he’d start talking, like “Okay, so then I lead the ten of diamonds to the board, board takes it, then I run the hearts off the board, they’re all good, then switch back to diamonds and sluff in my hand, making four, in a major suit, so one overtrick.” Then he’d write the score down. No. Sorry. That is not a lay-down hand there, and even if it was. Yeah, this is almost a hijack, it’s such a different thing. But for this reason I never wanted to play with him, either against or as his partner, because I wanted to PLAY, not sit there and listen to his play-by-play, even if he was always right. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/75 "2012-03-28T05:42:34Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > You seem to be saying two completely opposite contradictory things. If winning is not the only enjoyable thing, then how is not being able to win hopeless? Thing is, the person who isn’t quitting has already won. What should be said is that winning by a huge amount is not the only thing. There’s a difference between playing to win and playing to thoroughly trounce your opponent. And all this could be avoided if the husband was being more sporting and would place limits on himself so that the games weren’t always so lopsided. It’s unsportsmanlike to continually invite someone to a game that they lose handily in. When you are ahead, you back off. This is also something they teach you as a kid. How come people only seem to remember the part about playing until the end? ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/76 "2012-03-28T05:58:25Z")
Ask your husband if Japan and Germany should have kept on playing in WWII even though the Allies were so far ahead that the outcome was inevitable. If the Mercy Rule was good enough for Hitler then it’s good enough for you. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/77 "2012-03-28T06:00:49Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Still not doing the masochistic, necrophiliac, equestrian thing. you come back here and finish this! don’t you walk away!! (o.O)/ ┬─┬ (O.o)\_ ⋋ ⋌ ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/78 "2012-03-28T08:26:04Z")
I’m happy to play with people who are way ahead of me if they’re good about it. There’s people who give you pointers, mention things you’ve done they’ve liked or that have taken them by surprise, and generally turn Being Beaten To A Pulp into an enjoyable learning experience. There’s others whose enjoyment appears to come from the ability to point, laugh and call you a moron, or who rather than say “are you sure you want to do that?” or “I’m sorry, but that move is actually illegal, because of this and that, see?” go movie D.I. on your ass and turn a miscount into the end of the world. The second group, I play with them once tops. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/79 "2012-03-28T09:50:10Z")
Some games are still fun, even if one player is a long way ahead. Others are not, but end quickly once one player is that far ahead. Some games are not fun, but don’t end quickly either. I think Scrabble is somewhere in the middle – you can always still have fun plotting each individual move, but it feels pretty futile if there’s a \>100 pt difference. If it was just one game, I’d play it out, but if it’s EVERY game, I’d rate the chance that I suddenly do better in the second half really low. However, there’s no reason to work out “which set of games is it reasonable to concede in” and then work out “is Maastricht and husband’s game one of those” when it’s so much easier to work out directly what would make them both happy. “Etiquette” is a red herring. If I’m playing a board game, or having a conversation, or meeting up with a random friend, we both need to know “what’s normal” so we know what to expect, because you can’t stop EVERY conversation to say “Shall I say ‘hi’ or ‘hello’? Do you arrive on time or five minutes early or five minutes late?” But if I’m playing with my spouse, and they’re not exactly the same as a representative Average Citizen, it’s much more effective to treat them according to their ACTUAL likes and dislikes, rather than screaming “NO! YOU MUST ACT EXACTLY LIKE EVERYONE ELSE OR I WON’T LOVE YOU!” Obviously if this was just one scrabble game, it wouldn’t matter. But obviously this has been going on a while. It doesn’t matter what someone else would want (although, in fact, I think most people who are somewhat competitive would act like Maastrich’s husband in his position, and like Maastricht in Maastricht’s position), it matters that Maastrich doesn’t enjoy what they’re doing, and the husband does. In fact, I assume the husband would prefer to play someone who was ready to put up more of a challenge online? My suggestions would be: - Don’t play online, play in real life more - Don’t play with each other, have him find some random people from facebook or whatever - Play fewer games, but Maastricht chooses to take a lot longer over each move and embrace strategic thinking, and see if that’s actually fun or not. I may be a romantic, but I think that’s likely to be most fun 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2012, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956/80 "2012-03-28T12:38:45Z")
I think it the equivalent of playing a stableford tournament in golf. You score points on each hole according to how many over or under your adjusted par you are. As soon as you feel that you can’t score points for the hole it is perfectly acceptable to “pick up” and start again with the next hole. It speeds things up and avoids the tedium of watching someone play out needlessly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-etiquette-question-refusing-to-play-when-your-opponent-is-too-far-ahead-of-you/616956.md?page=5)