# Silly Useless Vehicles **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2001, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025 "2001-02-18T23:31:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![fatherjohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b2d939/32.png) [@fatherjohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fatherjohn)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/141 "2001-03-06T01:14:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Philster \* > \*\* > Holy crap, FatherJohn, we are not talking about defining SUCK as in the dictionary!!! \*\* Is that humming i hear? Could it be the sound of **Philster** backpedaling? Look, chum - you haven’t dug yourself in as deep as a lot of the other folks who’ve been posting. Why not quit while you’re not too far behind? For what it’s worth, here are some reasons why I find SUV’s to be disgusting and/or repellant. 1. They obstruct the views of other drivers. (this is particularly bad in parking lots); 2. They pose greater danger, in terms of property damage, injury, and loss of life, to other drivers; 3. They are very frequently driven by people who have no need for them but who are merely following the latest trend; and 4. They are frequently driven by macho assholes who want to bully and intimidate other drivers. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/142 "2001-03-06T01:22:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Anyway, it’s funny how after fatherjohn uses the “poseur” cite to demolish certain peoples’ arguments, all they can do is splutter that it’s a SATIRE cite. You’re ignoring the fact that the statements that you took from your Poseur site have been debunked. > [@](#): > > “According to IIHS statistics, the only time an SUV will come out ahead in an accident is if it collides with a smaller vehicle. Even then, the only advantages you get with an SUV are at the expense of those driving smaller cars, which are designed to absorb impacts.” Again you use that quote. Please explain to me how this is a BAD thing for the occupants of an SUV. In addition, I am waiting for you to address the points I made with regards to the study that I quoted, and the individual quotes I provided in particular ([here’s the link](http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/regrev/evaluate/808569.html) if your small mind has forgotten how to scroll up). After all, I’ve shown you the courtesy of debunking the stuff you’ve been spewing in short order… perhaps you can return the favor? In the name of Fighting Ignorance, of course. > [@](#): > > Large vehicles have historically been more stable and provided more protection for their own occupants than small ones… > [@](#): > > NHTSA estimates that a 100-pound reduction in the average weight of passenger cars, with accompanying reductions (based on historical patterns) in other size parameters such as track width, and in the absence of any compensatory improvements in safety technology, would have a significant adverse impact on safety… > [@](#): > > NHTSA concluded that downsizing resulted in increases of nearly 2,000 fatalities and 20,000 serious or moderate injuries per year… > [@](#): > > The results have a clear pattern: reducing a vehicle’s weight increases net risk in collisions with substantially larger and stronger entities… I’m waiting. But I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/143 "2001-03-06T02:03:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Look, chum - you haven’t dug yourself in as deep as a lot of the other folks who’ve been posting. Why not quit while you’re not too far behind? Oh, **fatherjohn**! Prince of Irony! ---
**Author:** ![KP235](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@KP235](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KP235)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/144 "2001-03-06T03:32:42Z")
> [@](#): > > (1)They obstruct the views of other drivers. (this is particularly bad in parking lots) This also applies to station wagons, mini vans, full size vans, pickup trucks, panel vans, and a wide Varity of trucks and semi trucks. Why single out those defined as SUVs ? > [@](#): > > (2)They pose greater danger, in terms of property damage, injury, and loss of life, to other drivers I’m going with the assumption that you mean that the larger size poses this risk to mini, midi, standard, and full size car drivers. This also applies to station wagons, mini vans, full size vans, pickup trucks, panel vans, and a wide Varity of trucks and semi trucks. Why single out those defined as SUVs ? > [@](#): > > (3)They are very frequently driven by people who have no need for them but who are merely following the latest trend Here is the statement where your problem with SUVs is revealed, you see no need for one so no one else should have a need, or _want_, for one either. I’m sorry if the rest of humanity does not share your view, and I hope you come to terms with that fact real soon, otherwise you’ll make yourself crazy. It is not up to you to define what any other person needs or wants in life. > [@](#): > > (4) They are frequently driven by macho assholes who want to bully and intimidate other drivers This is an extension of your last point, and you’ve adding some name calling. It doesn’t help. If you feel bullied and intimidated, well sorry for you. I won’t resort to any name calling but I would like to request a change in your attitude. SUVs exist. The sooner you learn to deal with it the better. Your attitude I suspect is largely responsible for the actions I see almost daily. People will pull in front of , and cut of truck just because they have to be in front of them, irregardless of safe distance. People will also ride the back of a truck so close the truck driver can’t see them in their mirrors. This kind of nonsense causes a lot of accidents, but you don’t get much driver attitude data in the SUV vs. smaller cars accident reports. Dude, I read this whole thread, and I doubt anything I said will change your mind, but keep your attitude off the roads, Ok ? ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/145 "2001-03-06T03:55:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KP235 \* > Dude, I read this whole thread, and I doubt anything I said will change your mind, but keep your attitude off the roads, Ok ? You are making two dangerous assumptions [ul] [li]He has a mind to change[/li][li]He is old enough to drive[/li][/ul] I have seen no evidence of either. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/146 "2001-03-06T04:35:41Z")
Just popped into laugh. I’m just a macho, macho man… ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/147 "2001-03-06T05:20:14Z")
Just for the record, I want to bring up that I read the Discover article about SUV’s, and found it rather disappointing. There was very little information that shouldn’t be common sense (taller objects - surprise! - fall over easier! Wow! Scientific breakthrough!). Nowhere in the article did it say that it SUV’s were less safe than other vehicles (except in the instance of rollovers). Something that caught me about the article, though… near the end, it had a mentioning of the plans that Ford plans to implement in order to stabilize SUV’s and to make them less-hazardous to other vehicles. I had a thought… perhaps it’s not that SUV’s are inherently less-safe, but that they’ve usually been a minor automobile market, and thusly have not advanced as quickly as other vehicles in terms of safety? Basically, this would indicate that SUV development has stagnated in the past several decades, and is only now receiving it’s come-uppance. Here’s hopin’ that the design flaws of your average SUV get worked out over the next few years. But by then, SUV’s won’t be popular anymore 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/148 "2001-03-06T10:06:42Z")
So, **fatherjohn** , are you happy yet? Ready to move on to another target? Maybe the senator of New York? [sub]Waaaaah…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![fatherjohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b2d939/32.png) [@fatherjohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fatherjohn)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/149 "2001-03-06T13:06:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KP235 \* > \*\*It is not up to you to define what any other person needs or wants in life. > \*\* “True, you can buy whatever you want, but I also have the freedom to make fun of you for what you buy.” Source: [http://poseur.4x4.org/negative.html](http://poseur.4x4.org/negative.html) ---
**Author:** ![fatherjohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b2d939/32.png) [@fatherjohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fatherjohn)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/150 "2001-03-06T13:12:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE Bo Diddly \* > \*\* > > [snip] > > \*\* "You are forgetting that a high percentage of accidents are single vehicle accidents, especially among SUVs. Say a heavy, stiff-structured SUV runs into a concrete dividing wall or a ditch instead of a crushable object like another car. You would actually want your vehicle to absorb some of the impact and not transmit the momentum directly to you. That’s why they design crumple zones into most cars, and most trucks lack this. I really don’t think SUVs are “unsafe”, I just don’t think they are as safe overall as cars. You are right however, in a multi-car accident a truck will come out better, but at the expense of the person driving the smaller car. If I was in an accident, I would actually care about the other person involved …especially if it was my fault. Everyone should strive to make accident risks as minimal as possible for everyone involved. That is simple common sense." Source: [http://poseur.4x4.org/negative.html](http://poseur.4x4.org/negative.html) ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/151 "2001-03-06T13:53:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fatherjohn \* > > “I really don’t think SUVs are “unsafe”, I just don’t think they are as safe overall as cars.” Once again, what the person who wrote that silly poseur site “thinks” isn’t applicable here. The IIHS (which, again, your favorite poseur site quotes) has factually demonstrated that SUVs are the safest vehicle on the road. I linked the chart above which proves this. Did you miss it? > [@](#): > > “You are right however, in a multi-car accident a truck will come out better, but at the expense of the person driving the smaller car. If I was in an accident, I would actually care about the other person involved …especially if it was my fault. Everyone should strive to make accident risks as minimal as possible for everyone involved. That is simple common sense.” Know what? In an accident, my main concern is the safety of my wife and my kids. Period. If they’re OK, then I’ll start worrying about other folks. My main duty is to ensure the safety of MY loved ones first. Don’t like it? Then buy your own SUV as a safety measure. Geez, man, throw a curve or a splitter or SOMETHING. Just setting them up on the tee for me like this is embarrassing you. ---
**Author:** ![mske](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@mske](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mske)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/152 "2001-03-06T14:00:15Z")
**SPOOFE, Sauron, Coldie** , et al. Let’s just let this thread die… For every relevant argument you bring up, **fatherjohn** will just bring up another quote from a satire site (whose server space is provided by a 4x4 enthusiast site) and use one of the following witty retorts: a) pot and kettle b) ad hominem attack c) i’m right d) i’m still right We’ll go back to discussing real events and issues, and **fatherjohn** can go back to his collection of stroke magazines. And **fatherjohn** , in case you think you “won”, I usually let my 5 year old cousin win to when we play **Sorry** … ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/153 "2001-03-06T14:09:28Z")
I second the motion. **fatherjohn’s** lack of coherent discussion and inability to realise that [poseur.com](http://poseur.com) is not a good “cite” site has become tedious. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/154 "2001-03-06T14:32:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > \*\*I second the motion. **fatherjohn’s** lack of coherent discussion and inability to realise that [poseur.com](http://poseur.com) is not a good “cite” site has become tedious. > > \*\* The motion on the table is “Do not feed the fatherjohn” all agreed? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2001, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/155 "2001-03-06T20:07:03Z")
Agreed. Ol’ John doesn’t seem to know how to communicate. You’d think that, if he was really interested in doing something good (as opposed to just stirring up trouble), he’d actually reply to someone else’s arguments. I know we’re not supposed to accuse people of “certain behavior”, but his actions in this thread come VERY damn close to it. Now, where’s that Star Destroyer thread again…? ---
**Author:** ![fatherjohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b2d939/32.png) [@fatherjohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fatherjohn)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2001, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/156 "2001-03-07T01:00:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE Bo Diddly \* > \*\*Agreed. Ol’ John doesn’t seem to know how to communicate. You’d think that, if he was really interested in doing something good (as opposed to just stirring up trouble), he’d actually reply to someone else’s arguments. > > \*\* :rolleyes: please spare me your sanctimony. I’ve cut your arguments to pieces again and again, most recently by pointing out that you were ignoring the difference between single-vehicle crashes and multiple vehicle crashes. Your response? Pushing down the same tired old straw man again and again. But look, if you (and certain others) are disinclined to post again to this thread, that’s fine by me. I’m perfectly happy to Rant In Peace ™. Have a nice day! :wally ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2001, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/157 "2001-03-07T09:20:46Z")
Hey, guys, did you hear something? Hmm… Must’ve been the wind. ---
**Author:** ![galt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@galt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galt)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2001, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/158 "2001-03-07T12:51:02Z")
Dear Fatherjohn, I don’t like SUV’s either. However, as an uninvolved observer, I would like to inform you that you have no debating skills, no reasonable references to back up your claims, and you haven’t “destroyed”, or even partially refuted, **anyone’s** arguments. In short, you look like a complete moron, and everyone here knows it. Reposting your silly links to biased sites will only make you look more foolish. Continuing only demonstrates that you are a **troll**. And since this is the pit: go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2001, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/159 "2001-03-07T14:19:28Z")
**galt** , the mods and Admins don’t like public outings. If you suspect someone is a troll, e-mail one of them about it. They will look into it and take care of it if that is the case. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2001, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025/160 "2001-03-07T15:48:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > > **I could claim that I’ve produced a controlled nuclear reaction in my navel** > > Dude, you do that too? Feels good, doesn’t it? 😉 \*\* \<—raising hand eagerly. Um, I’ve got knowledge on fuel rod insertion. Need any volunteers? :eek: Cartooniverse [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silly-useless-vehicles/55025.md?page=9)