# Silvio Berlusconi Loses in Italy- Who is now left in the Coalition of the Willing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097 "2006-04-10T15:55:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/1 "2006-04-10T15:55:29Z")
As per the tread title. Berlusconi has lost and Prodi has won. Prodi is anti the Iraq coalition and more pro European and less pro American than Berlusconi. With Spain gone the same way, which meaningful allies are now left in the “Coalition”. (Apart from Toady Blair of course). And hints are being dropped in the Press here that British Forces may be leaving by Christmas- the Brits support the Armed Forces but are solidly against the Invasion and continued occupation. Is it just going to be the US from next year, or will they go too. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/2 "2006-04-10T16:04:53Z")
Tough call, politically. If the British truly announce they’re on their way out I’d expect most of the others to do so as well. And that puts the administration, which has been making pull out noises, in a bind. Do they pull out and risk seeing Iraq fall into the Iranian sphere or descend into anarchy or what? If we pull out prior to the midterms it’ll be an election issue and if we’re NOT out by election day it’ll be an issue. I honestly don’t know which way would be less politically painful. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/3 "2006-04-10T16:12:45Z")
Answer: None. Did you mean to post this in GQ, because I don’t see what the debate is? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/4 "2006-04-10T16:28:33Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Answer: None. > > Did you mean to post this in GQ, because I don’t see what the debate is? What’s the appropriate forum for the good new item of the day? I’m extremely happy Berlusconi lost (and didn’t know until I looked at the board). I now hope they’ll find something in the future to prosecute this moronic arrogant crook, now that he can’t anymore pass Berlusconi amnesty laws, Berlusconi’s companies must make more money laws, and Berlusconi’s control all the medias laws. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/5 "2006-04-10T16:32:05Z")
Well, this might help some. It’s a list of nations that had troops in Iraq as of July 2005. I don’t have any more updated information. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition\_of\_the\_Willing#List\_of\_nations\_in\_the\_Coalition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_of_the_Willing#List_of_nations_in_the_Coalition) ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/6 "2006-04-10T16:35:43Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Answer: None. > > Did you mean to post this in GQ, because I don’t see what the debate is? And if I had posted it in GQ, would you have suggested it was contentious enough to go to GD. The essence of the question is: if the US is left as the only meaningful member of the Coalition of the Willing, where does that leave US policy on the matter? Is that enough of a debate for you? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/7 "2006-04-10T17:05:45Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > And if I had posted it in GQ, would you have suggested it was contentious enough to go to GD. > > The essence of the question is: > if the US is left as the only meaningful member of the Coalition of the Willing, where does that leave US policy on the matter? > > Is that enough of a debate for you? What do you mean “where does that leave US policy”? The war is widely unpopular in the US already, but you almost never read anything in the news about non-US forces in Iraq. If the Brits pulled out, you’d read about it in the paper one day, and then you’d never hear about it again. (I think there are only about 8,000 UK troops there now.) Bush is going to stay in Iraq as long as he thinks he has to, and it won’t make one bit of difference to him if even the Brits pull out. Since Bush will be setting US policy until 2009, that’s the end of the story. I don’t know how many threads we’ve had that basically boil down to: _Will this finally make Bush pull out of Iraq?_ And none of them has been correct. I suspect we’ll start drawing down some troops this summer, and may even be at less than 100k by the end of the year. But even in the sunniest scenario, I expect to have ~30k still there when the next president is sworn in. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/8 "2006-04-10T17:07:49Z")
Noooo! The “Jesus Christ of politics” has been crucified! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/9 "2006-04-10T17:14:45Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > As per the tread title. Berlusconi has lost and Prodi has won. It’s still just exit-polls. Notoriously inaccurate in Italy. > [@Pjen](#): > > Prodi is anti the Iraq coalition and more pro European and less pro American than Berlusconi. > > With Spain gone the same way, which meaningful allies are now left in the “Coalition”. Well I don’t know if you consider it meaningful, but Denmark just voted to stay till at least 2007, and the Danish PM, recently reelected, again vowed to stay in Iraq for as long as it took. The Danish people are behind the decision btw. > [@Pjen](#): > > (Apart from Toady Blair of course). yap yap ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/10 "2006-04-10T17:56:48Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > What do you mean “where does that leave US policy”? The war is widely unpopular in the US already, but you almost never read anything in the news about non-US forces in Iraq. If the Brits pulled out, you’d read about it in the paper one day, and then you’d never hear about it again. (I think there are only about 8,000 UK troops there now.) > > Bush is going to stay in Iraq as long as he thinks he has to, and it won’t make one bit of difference to him if even the Brits pull out. Since Bush will be setting US policy until 2009, that’s the end of the story. I don’t know how many threads we’ve had that basically boil down to: _Will this finally make Bush pull out of Iraq?_ And none of them has been correct. > > I suspect we’ll start drawing down some troops this summer, and may even be at less than 100k by the end of the year. But even in the sunniest scenario, I expect to have ~30k still there when the next president is sworn in. There! You see! It is a debate! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/11 "2006-04-10T20:04:27Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Well I don’t know if you consider it meaningful, but Denmark just voted to stay till at least 2007, and the Danish PM, recently reelected, again vowed to stay in Iraq for as long as it took. The Danish people are behind the decision btw. Hmm. That’s not in line with what I read about [recent polls](http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read.html?id=6574) there: > [@](#): > > March 16, 2006 > > In Denmark, public opinion is turning against the presence of Danish troops in Iraq. > > The last survey showed 61 percent opposition, up from 43 percent in July 2005. But of course, I don’t read Danish so I don’t have access to much information about it. As for significance, Denmark has about 500 troops in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/12 "2006-04-10T20:06:22Z")
Yawn. So Berlusconi loses in Italy, but it’s all really about how detestable America is? Why is it that every post you make, no matter what the ostensible subject matter, is really about the US? What are you, obsessed with us? You SAY you hate us, but no one could sustain that level of interest unless…well, I’ve said to much. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/13 "2006-04-10T21:17:18Z")
Italy’s general election is turning into an extremely close race, with early results pointing to a slender lead for PM Silvio Berlusconi… [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4894584.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4894584.stm) [NB: the Netherlands is also left in the coalition of the winning] ---
**Author:** ![aurelian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@aurelian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurelian)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/14 "2006-04-10T21:26:14Z")
Is saying “Poland” picking the low-hanging fruit? (Well, answering “Afrika Bambaataa and The Zulu Nation!” definitely is.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/15 "2006-04-10T21:31:18Z")
> [@gum](#): > > NB: the Netherlands is also left in the coalition 😕 It is? I thought [the Dutch military mission to Iraq ended on 7 March 2005.](http://www.government.nl/actueel/dossieroverzicht/42_18993.jsp) As of last summer there were said to be [fewer than 20](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_orbat_coalition.htm) Dutch servicemembers in Iraq as part of a stabilization mission and a NATO training effort: > [@](#): > > As of July 27, 2005, the Netherlands still had 4 troops in Iraq, as part of SFIR(Stabilization Force IRaq). In addition, it also had 14 troops in the country as part of the NATO Training Mission Iraq(NTM-I) ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/16 "2006-04-10T21:50:43Z")
You’re probably right, **Kimstu** but I think they’re still there. > **[Regering](https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/regering?utm_campaign=regering.nl&utm_source=regering.nl&utm_medium=redirect)** > > Op 15, 16 en 17 maart 2021 zijn de verkiezingen gehouden voor de Tweede Kamer. Momenteel vindt er een kabinetsformatie plaats. Meer informatie over de kabinetsformatie vindt u op de website kabinetsformatie2021.nl. And if we’re not: We’re still in the coalition of the willing. [Afghanistan, for example] ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/17 "2006-04-10T21:55:40Z")
> [@gum](#): > > And if we’re not: We’re still in the coalition of the willing. [Afghanistan, for example] Oh, the Netherlands is definitely still part of Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan and other activities of the “war on terror”, but I think that [“coalition of the willing”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_of_the_willing) was a term specifically coined for the multinational force assembled for Operation Iraqi Freedom in particular. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/18 "2006-04-10T21:56:02Z")
> [@gum](#): > > You’re probably right, **Kimstu** but I think they’re still there. > [Regering | Rijksoverheid.nl](http://www.regering.nl/actueel/nieuwsarchief/2005/06June/10/trainingsmissie_Irak.jsp) > > And if we’re not: We’re still in the coalition of the willing. [Afghanistan, for example] The “Coalition of the Willing” is only used in reference to Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/19 "2006-04-10T21:59:28Z")
You are correct, **Kimstu**. Thank you for teaching me. And for that link. 🙂 [on preview: Thank you too **John Mace**] ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/20 "2006-04-10T22:04:52Z")
Japan is still in it, and committed its troops for another year last December. Koizumi is planning to hand over the reigns later this year, though, so things could change depending on who is successor is (and how much control Koizumi has behind the scenes.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097.md?page=2)