# Silvio Berlusconi Loses in Italy- Who is now left in the Coalition of the Willing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097 "2006-04-10T15:55:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/21 "2006-04-10T22:07:07Z")
> [@aurelian](#): > > Is saying “Poland” picking the low-hanging fruit?[/SIZE] Who is this “low-hanging fruit”? Jeff Stryker? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mamboman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@mamboman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mamboman)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/22 "2006-04-10T22:26:13Z")
The Aussies are still there. I have no idea why. mm ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/23 "2006-04-11T08:45:17Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > Japan is still in it, and committed its troops for another year last December. Koizumi is planning to hand over the reigns later this year, though, so things could change depending on who is successor is (and how much control Koizumi has behind the scenes.) As much as Koizumi wants the troops to stay, there’s not much support for it among the general population, with 74% of people polled by the Nihon Keizai Shimbun (in December 2005) responding that the troops should be withdrawn by June this year at the latest, and only 11% saying that they should stay as long as the Americans do. [http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1434100&C=landwar](http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1434100&C=landwar) Of course, given the general level of apathy for international affairs here (probably aided by the fact that Japanese troops aren’t getting killed on a regular basis), Koizumi can pretty much do as he pleases regardless of poll numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/24 "2006-04-11T18:17:11Z")
Update - the apparent margin of victory for Prodi is extremely thin; Berlusconi hasn’t conceded defeat and may challenge the results, claiming that there are suspicious irregularities involving expatriate Italian votes and half a million discarded ballots. Sounds a bit reminiscent of a disputed 2000 election on this side of the pond… Even if the results stand, [it hardly seems as if Prodi is going to have clear sailing](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4900986.stm) to implement whatever policies his backers want. And [the Italian press](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4898986.stm) seems to have other things on its mind besides the Coalition of the Willing, despite the obsessive preoccupation of the OP on this subject. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/25 "2006-04-11T18:51:39Z")
“Coalition of Willing” . . . That’s not a name for a military alliance, that’s a name for a curiously highbrow porn film. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/26 "2006-04-11T20:01:42Z")
Bingo! > **[Prodi victorious in Italian poll](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/apr/11/italy)** > > · Prodi gains control of both houses · Berlusconi demands recount "Romano Prodi has won Italy’s closely-fought general election, after returns for overseas voters gave him control of both houses of parliament. "“We have won, and now we have to start working to implement our programme and unify the country,” Mr Prodi told a rally in Rome. "“I am grateful to all of you because it has been a very difficult battle. Until the very end we were left in suspense, but in the end victory has arrived.” \*\*"He also told French radio that his government would start by pulling Italian troops out of Iraq. "“The day the government starts its work, we will take the decision to withdraw troops from Iraq,” he told France-Info. "Of course, not in the space of a day, but with the necessary caution. “”\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/27 "2006-04-11T20:22:57Z")
Hmm. From your linked article: “Italian voters were mainly preoccupied with the economy. Mr Berlusconi, a billionaire businessman whose empire includes TV networks, insurance and real estate, failed to jumpstart a flat economy during his tenure, but promised to abolish a homeowners’ property tax. Mr Prodi said he would revive an inheritance tax abolished by Mr Berlusconi, but only for the richest; he also promised to cut payroll taxes to try to spur hiring.” So this election is really all about how Italian voters wanted to slap the United States? You should get a new hobby. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/28 "2006-04-11T20:27:09Z")
I never said that that was why they voted that way (although a majority of Italians are against their forces staying in Iraq.) I merely noted that this was one more nail in the coffin of the coalition of the willing. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/29 "2006-04-11T20:42:21Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Well I don’t know if you consider it meaningful, but Denmark just voted to stay till at least 2007, and the Danish PM, recently reelected, again vowed to stay in Iraq for as long as it took. The Danish people are behind the decision btw. They are ? I beg to differ - as far as I can tell, it’s about half. [Link](http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php?id=3920586) to the latest poll I’m aware of (April 2nd) - sorry, in Danish. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/30 "2006-04-11T22:35:24Z")
I am in total agreement with the OP. At this point, there are no meaningful members of the “Coalition of the Willing”, which was a deceptive title to begin with. Most of the countries that are currently providing troops are limiting those troops strictly to duties such as engineering and medical, or to regions of the country where there’s no armed conflict. The plain fact was that most the countries involved weren’t sending 50 to 5,000 soldiers because they deeply believed in the necessity to contain the spread of imaginary WMDs, or spread democracy or whatever the justification du jour is. They believed that their small troop commitments would put the United States in their debt, and that they could collect a favor at some later date. But once it became clear that the Iraqi people didn’t like being occupied by foreign armies and that the war was going to drag on indefinitely, that reasoning ceased to make sense. The price was too high, and Bush’s dishonesty made them question whether he would actually deliver the promised favors when asked. One by one, they’ve pulled out. They will continue to do so. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/31 "2006-04-11T22:58:59Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > I am in total agreement with the OP. At this point, there are no meaningful members of the “Coalition of the Willing”, which was a deceptive title to begin with. Most of the countries that are currently providing troops are limiting those troops strictly to duties such as engineering and medical, or to regions of the country where there’s no armed conflict. The OP conveniently asked us to ignore the UK. They only represent a small fraction of the total number of troops, but have always been and still are the largest non-US supplier of troops. Do you consider the UK not to be meaningful? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/32 "2006-04-11T23:08:22Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > I never said that that was why they voted that way (although a majority of Italians are against their forces staying in Iraq.) > > I merely noted that this was one more nail in the coffin of the coalition of the willing. The effect of which will be what, in your opinion? Do you think this will have a dramatic impact on the conduct or duration of this conflict? Or influence events beyond Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/33 "2006-04-12T07:51:49Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Hmm. That’s not in line with what I read about [recent polls](http://www.politicalgateway.com/news/read.html?id=6574) there: > > But of course, I don’t read Danish so I don’t have access to much information about it. As for significance, Denmark has about 500 troops in Iraq. I really don’t put too much stock in polls either way. However as I’ve followed them, they started below 50% in favour, slowly climbing to the 50%-60% range. However I haven’t seen any polls after all the Cartoon bullshit hit the fan, which have embittered a lot of Danes and might very well have removed a great deal of the Danish public interest in helping out in the Middle East and even had the most pro party to demand the Iraqi and Afghan governments to reiterated their wish for the Danish military presence. So it actually wouldn’t surprise me if the support had fallen below 50% again. Not that makes any difference since Denmark is not a pollcracy and the only real measure of the Danish popular support is in general election – which was overwhelming supportive. > [@ITR champion](#): > > I am in total agreement with the OP. At this point, there are no meaningful members of the “Coalition of the Willing”, which was a deceptive title to begin with. Most of the countries that are currently providing troops are limiting those troops strictly to duties such as engineering and medical, or to regions of the country where there’s no armed conflict. > > The plain fact was that most the countries involved weren’t sending 50 to 5,000 soldiers because they deeply believed in the necessity to contain the spread of imaginary WMDs, or spread democracy or whatever the justification du jour is. They believed that their small troop commitments would put the United States in their debt, and that they could collect a favor at some later date. But once it became clear that the Iraqi people didn’t like being occupied by foreign armies and that the war was going to drag on indefinitely, that reasoning ceased to make sense. The price was too high, and Bush’s dishonesty made them question whether he would actually deliver the promised favors when asked. > > One by one, they’ve pulled out. They will continue to do so. The, 530 I think is the number now, Danish troops is the equivalent of some 30.000 US troops when you account for population size (and because the Danish troops are hard-core Viking warriors that eat little terrorist babies for breakfast!). Would you consider an investment of 30.000 US troops in a hostile environment a purely symbolic gesture? If not, why insist the Danish is? Besides Denmark has no real need to get the US in their debt. Of course it’s true that, military speaking, 500 Danish troops are never going to do that much overall difference. However they probably have a larger diplomatic impact, where Denmark wields disproportional influence. The Danish troops are part of the British command structure. If the Brits withdraw, the Danes will too. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2006, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097/34 "2006-04-12T08:28:08Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > Of course, given the general level of apathy for international affairs here (probably aided by the fact that Japanese troops aren’t getting killed on a regular basis), Koizumi can pretty much do as he pleases regardless of poll numbers. Exactly. I don’t think there has been a single point since the beginning of the war where there wasn’t a majority against sending troops. That hasn’t had any effect on Koizumi’s popularity or the electoral success of the LDP, though. As you noted, no doubt the fact that no Japanese troops have been killed helps. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/silvio-berlusconi-loses-in-italy-who-is-now-left-in-the-coalition-of-the-willing/352097.md?page=1)