# Similiarities to Jesus - very misguided? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533 "2013-10-29T06:57:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/61 "2013-11-21T12:53:26Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Thanks, looking forward to it. It will take some time because I have a lot to do and I will find the pages etc. so you can see for your self. I know it is hard to accept that there are many myths of many people and one doesn’t like the idea of something they were taught not to be the only person( or mythological person) who may have been added to one they were taught to be different. Just like the people who don’t or didn’t believe Elvis or John Kennedy was dead! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/62 "2013-11-21T13:25:26Z")
Until I have time to re-rd the volumes of Osiris one can look up" Osiris Resurrected Savior God of Egypt facts behind faith" On Google. It has been many years ago since I read the 2 volumes so will take time to find the passages asked me to find. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/63 "2013-11-21T15:01:26Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > It will take some time because I have a lot to do and I will find the pages etc. so you can see for your self. But I did. And it’s not there. It’s just not there. Either prove me wrong by providing a cite, or admit that when you claimed that Osiris was said to have walked on water, you did not speak the truth. > [@monavis](#): > > I know it is hard to accept that there are many myths of many people and one doesn’t like the idea of something they were taught not to be the only person( or mythological person) who may have been added to one they were taught to be different. Just like the people who don’t or didn’t believe Elvis or John Kennedy was dead! 😕 What are you on about? I don’t think it’s the _least_ bit hard to “accept that there are many myths of many people.” I also don’t think it’s the _least_ bit hard to understand that religious and cultural traditions sometimes influence each other, borrowing traits and myths and stories. I certainly do not believe that Christianity is an exception - immune, somehow, to any and all influence from other religious or cultural traditions. You seem to labor under the misconception that I am a Christian. I am not. What I am, is someone who likes to get to the bottom of things. So, back to Osiris and his (supposed) water-walk. You don’t have to re-read the entire book. You just have to check the index, under “W,” for “walking on water.” It should be at the very end of the second volume. Do it, please, and let me know what you find. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/64 "2013-11-21T17:17:39Z")
Isn’t that really a pretty trivial issue though? I mean according to Egyptian mythology the great god [Khepri](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khepri)rolls the ball of the sun through the underworld from West to East every night, so how big of a deal is walking on water going to be? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/65 "2013-11-21T19:27:31Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > Isn’t that really a pretty trivial issue though? I mean according to Egyptian mythology the great god [Khepri](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khepri)rolls the ball of the sun through the underworld from West to East every night, so how big of a deal is walking on water going to be? What we are discussing here are supposed similarities between Jesus and any and all old Egyptian gods. **monavis** claimed that one such similarity was that, like Jesus, Osiris was said to have walked on water. For the purposes of this discussion, this isn’t “pretty trivial” at all: As one of those supposed similarities, it’s perfectly relevant and on-topic. Anyway, I asked for a cite for this claim; he didn’t provide one. I showed that the book where he claims to have encountered that claim does not, in fact, make that claim at all. He has stalled ever since. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/66 "2013-11-21T19:32:55Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > What we are discussing here are supposed similarities between Jesus and any and all old Egyptian gods. Certainly, but both of you are missing the point in my opinion. What type of similarities are we going to consider important - those that are superficial or those that are actually meaningful? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/67 "2013-11-21T19:43:23Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > Certainly, but both of you are missing the point in my opinion. What type of similarities are we going to consider important - those that are superficial or those that are actually meaningful? Well, maybe a good way to go would be to list 'em all, and then go through them one by one, separating the superficial ones from the meaningful ones, not to mention the true ones from the false ones. So far, **monavis** has given us nothing but weaksauce, easily picked apart by you, me, **Dissonance** and others. I focussed in on **monavis** ’ Osiris-was-said-to-have-walked-on-water claim _not_ because I consider it an extraordinarily deep or meaningful example, but because it was one of his very few _specific_ claims, which, if true, could be easily proven with a simple cite. But it’s not true, so he’s stalling. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/68 "2013-11-21T19:54:51Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Well, maybe a good way to go would be to list 'em all, and then go through them one by one, separating the superficial ones from the meaningful ones, not to mention the true ones from the false ones. You have a point there but then you open the way for people to focus only on those that are insignificant. So JC did this and so did X, JC was x years old when he first stubbed his toe and so was X, and so on. It’s like those old [Kennedy-Lincoln comparisons](http://www.snopes.com/history/american/lincoln-kennedy.asp). You can eventually find enough insignificant points of comparison to make SOUND as if there is something meaningful there. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/69 "2013-11-22T12:39:40Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > But I did. And it’s not there. It’s just not there. > > Either prove me wrong by providing a cite, or admit that when you claimed that Osiris was said to have walked on water, you did not speak the truth. > > 😕 > > What are you on about? I don’t think it’s the _least_ bit hard to “accept that there are many myths of many people.” I also don’t think it’s the _least_ bit hard to understand that religious and cultural traditions sometimes influence each other, borrowing traits and myths and stories. I certainly do not believe that Christianity is an exception - immune, somehow, to any and all influence from other religious or cultural traditions. > > You seem to labor under the misconception that I am a Christian. I am not. > > What I am, is someone who likes to get to the bottom of things. > > So, back to Osiris and his (supposed) water-walk. You don’t have to re-read the entire book. You just have to check the index, under “W,” for “walking on water.” It should be at the very end of the second volume. Do it, please, and let me know what you find. I started to read the first Volume of Osiris and the Egyptian Resurrection and in the first 76 pages I found more simularites even more like what is said about Jesus and the God of Abraham. I will keep reading until I find the passage. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/70 "2013-11-22T12:56:26Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I started to read the first Volume of Osiris and the Egyptian Resurrection and in the first 76 pages I found more simularites even more like what is said about Jesus and the God of Abraham. I will keep reading until I find the passage. I am a little confused abotu what you are saying. “ **more simularites even more _like what is said_ about Jesus and the God of Abraham** ” What do you mean by that? Are you comparing Egyptian myths with the Bible itself, or with commentary on the Bible, or extra-Biblical sermons, or common folk religious superstitions, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/71 "2013-11-22T13:02:31Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I started to read the first Volume of Osiris and the Egyptian Resurrection and in the first 76 pages I found more simularites even more like what is said about Jesus and the God of Abraham. I will keep reading until I find the passage. Quotes, **Monavis** , give us quotes. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/72 "2013-11-22T16:08:23Z")
Consider this hypothetical for a second. Nuclear holocaust destroys much of human civilization. It takes centuries to rebuild, and much knowledge has been lost. Two thousand year from now, future scholars try to rediscover history, based on books and documents that survived destruction. Scholars start to argue about Abraham Lincoln. Some believe he was a great leader of a great nation. But skeptics scoff at that idea. The skeptics say, "Lincoln never existed. It’s OBVIOUS that he was just a myth, based on earlier legends of Jesus Christ. Look at the evidence; 1. Lincoln, like Jesus, wore a beard. 2. Lincoln, like Jesus, was venerated as a Great Liberator. 3. Lincoln, like Jesus, though destined for greatness, was born in a small, ramshackle wooden building. 4. Lincoln, like Jesus, preached benevolence, but was killed for it." Now, are those parallels real? Sort of. But NONE of the parallels is close enough or eerie enough to suggest that Lincoln was just a fictional character based on Jesus. They wouldn’t persuade ANYONE who wasn’t already eager to believe that Lincoln wasn’t real. Similarly, the much ballyhooed similarities between Jesus and other demigods of legend are pretty thin stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/73 "2013-11-22T19:56:01Z")
As one example of **astorian** ’s idea, I’ve heard it said by some that the story of Odin, in hanging himself from the World-Tree, might have been inspired by stories of Jesus as told to the Germans by Christian priests. “Our God was hung on a cross…” “Hm… Nice motif! We must incorporate that into our tales. Thank you!” It would certainly seem possible…but how could we ever know for sure? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/74 "2013-11-22T22:43:55Z")
> [@deltasigma](#): > > You have a point there but then you open the way for people to focus only on those that are insignificant. So JC did this and so did X, JC was x years old when he first stubbed his toe and so was X, and so on. > > It’s like those old [Kennedy-Lincoln comparisons](http://www.snopes.com/history/american/lincoln-kennedy.asp). You can eventually find enough insignificant points of comparison to make SOUND as if there is something meaningful there. Coulda sworn I posted already a reply to this, but anyway: Yeah, I see what you mean, but if all Massey’s Zeitgeistian Maherists (bandname…?) can deliver is a weak, shitty list of superficial similarities, well, then that stuff can easily be picked apart by the teeming millions. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/75 "2013-11-22T22:45:36Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I started to read the first Volume of Osiris and the Egyptian Resurrection and in the first 76 pages I found more simularites even more like what is said about Jesus and the God of Abraham. I will keep reading until I find the passage. Look, I admire your dedication and all, but wouldn’t it be easier to just check the index at the end of the book? Rather than, you know, re-read 900 pages? ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/76 "2013-11-22T22:57:40Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Coulda sworn I posted already a reply to this, but anyway: > > Yeah, I see what you mean, but if all Massey’s Zeitgeistian Maherists (bandname…?) can deliver is a weak, shitty list of superficial similarities, well, then that stuff can easily be picked apart by the teeming millions. And you should definitely do that, assuming you have the patience. Personally, I don’t. I’d rather distinguish between what’s relevant and what’s not and focus only on the former. But that’s just me. 🙂 Of course if you see that other people are stupid enough to be swayed by the superficial bullshit, and the unfortunate fact of the matter is that they generally are, then if you have the fortitude to take up the fight, more power to you. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/77 "2013-11-23T21:08:38Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > I am a little confused abotu what you are saying. “ **more simularites even more _like what is said_ about Jesus and the God of Abraham** ” > > What do you mean by that? Are you comparing Egyptian myths with the Bible itself, or with commentary on the Bible, or extra-Biblical sermons, or common folk religious superstitions, or what? I will print the passages I read again and you can decide for your self. I read it back in the early 80’s so forgot a lot of passages. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/78 "2013-11-23T21:11:43Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Quotes, **Monavis** , give us quotes. I will print off some tomorrow morning. I was ill this morning and wasn’t up to doing it I am feeling better today, but have things I must attend to… ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/79 "2013-11-23T21:14:13Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Look, I admire your dedication and all, but wouldn’t it be easier to just check the index at the end of the book? > > Rather than, you know, re-read 900 pages? It doesn’t s far as I know have that passage. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533/80 "2013-11-23T21:16:47Z")
I hope you feel better. Take care. I had a bad cold recently that turned into bronchitis and meant a course of antibiotics. Better to take care of yourself now than pay for it later. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/similiarities-to-jesus-very-misguided/672533.md?page=5)