# Simon and Garfunkal ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 24, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515 "2004-12-24T19:41:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/1 "2004-12-24T19:41:56Z")
Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Tyme? Do these spices have anything to do with anything? A workmate of my Wife’s said that the combination is like a ‘day after’ abortion pill. Huh? What?.. Just wondering if the spices mentioned have any significance, or was Paul making lasagna when he wrote the song. I think, my Wife’s friend is smoking to much Sage. Needs more Parsley. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/2 "2004-12-24T19:45:47Z")
Try [here](http://www.gardenerspath.com/articles/herbalist/parsleysage.html) for a herbalist’s answer to your question. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nightwatch\_Trailer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9dc877/32.png) [@Nightwatch\_Trailer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightwatch_Trailer)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/3 "2004-12-24T19:59:31Z")
And [here’s](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mparsley.html) a SD staff report on the subject. Beware the puns! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/4 "2004-12-24T21:28:13Z")
Paul Simon wrote almost all of S & G’s songs, but he didn’t write this one. “Scarborough Fair” is a very old song, and was around centuries before Paul Simon was born. So, no, the lyrics had nothing to do with Sixties drug usage. Essentially, the lyrics are about a shattered love affair. The singer has had his heart broken by someone who lives in Scarborough. Through a friend, he tells his old flame “If you want to win my love again, all you have to do is a series of ridiculously impossible tasks (sewing a shirt without any seams, etc.).” The basic meaning seems to be that, once love is gone, there’s no way ever to get it back. Paul Simon did change the song in one regard- he added some anti-war verses that are heard between the verses of the original song. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/5 "2004-12-24T21:35:49Z")
Both Cecil and the OP refer to these as “spices”. Surely they’re herbs? ---
**Author:** ![Khampelf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Khampelf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khampelf)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/6 "2004-12-25T00:02:06Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Paul Simon did change the song in one regard- he added some anti-war verses that are heard between the verses of the original song. Not sure which verses you mean, **Astorian**. The sotto voce inbetween lines seem to be the condiitons that make the requests impossible, but they don’t seem ‘Anti-War’. I was listening to the version from the same titles album. Did they do another version in live performances, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/7 "2004-12-25T00:20:58Z")
when the song is sung now the anti war verses usually are not sung… one of the guys sings: “tell her to make me a cambric shirt.” the other guy jumps in at the word: “me” with: “on the side of a hill in the deep forest green.” then first guy jumps in on the second beat of green with: “parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme;” other guy jumps in on thyme with: “tracing of sparrow on snow crested brown” on and on for 3 verses… the anti war verses speak of gun cleaning, killing orders and fighting for causes that are forgotten by the soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/8 "2004-12-25T00:32:40Z")
> [@rocking chair](#): > > when the song is sung now the anti war verses usually are not sung… > > one of the guys sings: “tell her to make me a cambric shirt.” the other guy jumps in at the word: “me” with: “on the side of a hill in the deep forest green.” then first guy jumps in on the second beat of green with: “parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme;” other guy jumps in on thyme with: “tracing of sparrow on snow crested brown” on and on for 3 verses… > > the anti war verses speak of gun cleaning, killing orders and fighting for causes that are forgotten by the soldiers. Wasn’t there also something about “scarlett batallions”?.. (Hm. Hafta go listen to that now.) Coincidentally, earlier this afternoon I was listening to a French Christmas carol to ye olde tune of Scarborough Fair (no herbs and spices in it though). ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/9 "2004-12-25T00:43:20Z")
Ah, here’s a chunk of the more explicit anti-war lyrics to the “Canticle” that’s woven between the verses: > [@](#): > > On the side of a hill a sprinkling of leaves. > Washes the grave with silvery tears. > A soldier cleans and polishes a gun. > Sleeps unaware of the clarion call. > > War bellows blazing in scarlet battalions. > General order their soldiers to kill. > And to fight for a cause they’ve long ago forgotten. Note: It seems that the version of Scarborough Fair that has the Canticle is listed as such on track lists. E.g./ “Scarborough Fair/Canticle” so if it just says “Scarborough Fair” it won’t have the anti-war bits. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/10 "2004-12-25T01:00:19Z")
I recall reading that parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme constituted a “love charm” sachet, though whether that is an accurate statement of a folk believe I will not venture to aver. However, “Scarborough Fair/Canticle” is a bit of polyphony, the interweaving of two contrasting lyrics in one piece of music. The old folk song “Scarborough Fair,” which has been quite well analyzed above, is merged with the Simon-written visual image/anti-war “Canticle.” [This French site](http://www.france-jeunes.net/paroles-simon.and.garfunkel-scarborough.fair.canticle-18844.htm) (in English) gives the lyrics to both pieces, without distinguishing between them. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/11 "2004-12-25T02:11:05Z")
And just to wrap it up: the word “canticle” just means song or chant, but often with a religious theme, as in Walter M. Miller, Jr.'s _A Canticle for Leibowitz_ Simon’s use, however, is more ironically descriptive, as in the title of Robert Coover’s wonderful and amazing short story collection _Pricksongs and Descants_, also words denoting older song types. (We didn’t snigger like eleven-year-olds as much back in the 60s, obviously.) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/12 "2004-12-25T16:32:57Z")
They’re _herbs_, not spices, gol-dang-it. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/13 "2004-12-26T01:06:23Z")
OK, what’s the difference between herbs and spices? I’m looking at the dictionary definition, and it seems that all herbs are probably also spices, though not all spices are herbs. Please explain. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2004, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-and-garfunkal/281515/14 "2004-12-26T02:28:52Z")
> [@chula](#): > > OK, what’s the difference between herbs and spices? I’m looking at the dictionary definition, and it seems that all herbs are probably also spices, though not all spices are herbs. Please explain. Generally speaking, herbs are the green leafy parts of a plant. Spices come from other parts, like flowers (or parts of flowers), bark, seeds, etc. Robin