# Simon Bar Sinister **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 2, 2012, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986 "2012-07-02T07:48:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/1 "2012-07-02T07:48:46Z")
Bouncing around Wikipedia the other day I stumbled across the [Simon Bar Sinister](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Bar_Sinister) page where it says > [@Wikipedia](#): > > [Simon] was voiced by Allen Swift, and based on the voice and **looks of Lionel Barrymore** [Lionel Barrymore](http://www.moviespad.com/photos/lionel-barrymore-images-5a00e.jpg), really? I also assumed his looks were based on [Klaus Kinski’](http://www.quotezuki.com/avatars/2010/10/07/klaus-kinski-avatar-3997.jpg)s [Simon Bar Sinister.](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VRxeXRnReYc/T3KV9OnV20I/AAAAAAAAINM/a26K4NNpSas/s1600/UNDERDOG%2BSIMON%2BTEST%2BTUBE%2BDVD%2BDISC%2BDETAIL.jpg) Anyone else? ETA: [More Klaus.](http://content6.flixster.com/photo/11/29/44/11294448_gal.jpg) . ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/2 "2012-07-02T08:08:57Z")
Kinski generally had a long, flowing mane of hair and Barrymore generally did not. Not sure a Kinski-based character would’ve passed network standards. I’m surprised the name Bar-Sinister did, heh heh. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/3 "2012-07-02T08:19:42Z")
Also, nobody knew who Klaus Kinski was when “Underdog” was produced in the early 60s. Lionel Barrymore, in contrast, was well- known by viewers of late night movies and as being part of the Barrymore family of thespians so many adult viewers at the time got the pop culture reference. (Oddly enough, however, Lionel Barrymore probably wouldn’t have been best known for his role as Mr. Potter in\*\* It’s a Wonderful Life \*\* since the movie didn’t really become part of mass popular cultural consciousness until the 70s when the film (temporarily) fell into public domain and was run constantly by TV stations during the holiday season.) ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/4 "2012-07-02T12:18:15Z")
I don’t have anything to advance the OP, but. . . [This guy](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PRFaCvSNr4) does a pretty decent impression. I went to school with a guy that looked like Cad. Every time I’d rediscover “Underdog” cartoons in reruns after a several year laps, it would always surprise me when I’d see Cad and think “That guy looks just like Zack!” In one of the SNL “news” clips, the anchor mentioned that in response the Underdog balloon in the Macy’s parade, Moscow would be having a Simon Bar Sinister balloon in their parade. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/5 "2012-07-02T12:27:39Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > I’m surprised the name Bar-Sinister did, heh heh. My family had a cat in the '60s/'70s named Simon Bar Sinister. I’m not sure when it was that I stumbled on the definition of bar sinister. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/6 "2012-07-02T12:56:42Z")
Man, I watched Underdog when I was a kid, and don’t remember any of that cool stuff. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/7 "2012-07-02T13:17:11Z")
Kinski had only been seen in the US in bit parts and a few German films when Underdog was created. It’s unlikely in the extreme that the producers of Underdog even knew who he was, let alone decide to characature him. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/8 "2012-07-02T16:38:11Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Kinski had only been seen in the US in bit parts and a few German films when Underdog was created. It’s unlikely in the extreme that the producers of Underdog even knew who he was, let alone decide to characature him. I suppose that’s true. I probably made my leap _after_ seeing Kinski (I loved him as the hunchback - A Few Dollars More?). Still, he doesn’t look like Barrymoore much to me. ETA: Yep, [the hunchback](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv0b9TxAtG4). . ---
**Author:** ![OtisCampbellWasRight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d78d45/32.png) [@OtisCampbellWasRight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtisCampbellWasRight)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/9 "2012-07-02T17:23:31Z")
I’m pretty sure it was a characture of Barrymore. Complete with the bags under the eyes and the weird-shaped balding head. “…and when I finish my weather machine I’ll RULE the world!!” SBS circa 1968 The don’t make 'em like that anymore. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/10 "2012-07-02T18:51:29Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Kinski generally had a long, flowing mane of hair and Barrymore generally did not. Not sure a Kinski-based character would’ve passed network standards. I’m surprised the name Bar-Sinister did, heh heh. 😕 What would have been the matter with Bar-Sinister? It’s just a term from heraldry. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/11 "2012-07-02T19:15:44Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > 😕 What would have been the matter with Bar-Sinister? It’s just a term from heraldry. Indicating bastardry - aka “Simon the Bastard.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/12 "2012-07-02T19:21:48Z")
Ah. Did not know that; I guess I just supposed some people found a bar sinister to be more aesthetically pleasing than a bar dexter. On reflection, a pretty stupid supposition, I have to confess. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/13 "2012-07-02T20:34:13Z")
I suspect that the “bar sinister” bastardy meaning is just a happy coincidence and that possibly SBS was Jewish, and his dad’s name was “Sinister.” He does have somewhat of a resemblance to the recently departed [Yitzhak Shamir](http://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&q=shimon+perez&oq=shimon+perez&gs_l=img.3..0j0i10i24l9.1576.3073.0.3183.12.11.0.0.0.0.312.1250.3j2j2j1.8.0...0.0.beLDWY7_lVw&safe=active&biw=1024&bih=678&sei=UAXyT9zqDMeU6wHi9oGYBg#hl=en&safe=active&site=imghp&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=YAXyT4zuF4q26wHF7P2gBg&ved=0CEQQBSgA&q=yitzhak+shamir&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=398204cb74115680&biw=1024&bih=678). ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/14 "2012-07-02T21:44:41Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > I suspect that the “bar sinister” bastardy meaning is just a happy coincidence and that possibly SBS was Jewish, and his dad’s name was “Sinister.” But in that case you’d say Simon Ben Sinister. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/15 "2012-07-02T23:49:17Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > I suspect that the “bar sinister” bastardy meaning is just a happy coincidence and that possibly SBS was Jewish, and his dad’s name was “Sinister.” Of course, of course. Though you do realize you’re talking about a character whose henchman was by odd coincidence named [Cad Lackey](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cad_Lackey#Cad_Lackey), his first name no doubt short for [Cadwaladr](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadwaladr) :p. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/16 "2012-07-03T00:59:57Z")
I read this thread at about 11 this morning and went to the doctor to get my ears flushed. As I waited for the doctor I watched Peter Dinklage be all bastady in the worst movie ever committed to celluloid. I didn’t even know it was possible to make a live action Underdog and yet, there it was. May Peter and Jim Belushi be reincarnated as yapping lap dogs as penance. Funny coincidence or a PlainJane curse? You decide! ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/17 "2012-07-03T21:22:19Z")
I found a news article from 2000 in which Joe Harris (“Underdog” creator) said that he based the SBS character on Barrymore. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/18 "2012-07-03T22:03:01Z")
Listen to Simon’s voice in[this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4iodo5K-xY). If you close your eyes, you can hear Mr. Potter (from _it’s a Wonderful Life_) when he speaks. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/19 "2012-07-03T22:59:26Z")
Don’t be anachronistic. Lionel Barrymore would still have been one of the best-known actors in the business even if _It’s a Wonderful Life_ had never been produced. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986/20 "2019-01-25T21:19:29Z")
So, was Simon Bar Sinister Jewish? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simon-bar-sinister/626986.md?page=2)