# Simple - deport illegals & use volunteer prisoners to work fields **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775 "2010-07-23T21:57:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/21 "2010-07-24T02:05:37Z")
> [@](#): > > How about just translating one prison day into a working hours worth? So for every hour you work your sentence is reduced by an hour. Basically this would mean you serve time twice as fast while you’re working. Which would mean that, once you reached steady-state, you’d only have half as many prisoners. So now, instead of trying to replace 12 million people with 2 million, you’re trying to replace them by 1 million. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/22 "2010-07-24T02:33:48Z")
What’s a volunteer prisoner? Is that like an indentured servant? Oh, you mean they volunteered to get out of prison & work in fields, not to go to prison. Still, :rolleyes: I think the main point of objecting to illegals is that they drive the price of labor down. Using prisoners would be worse. How about we pay fruit pickers a living wage instead? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/23 "2010-07-24T02:35:08Z")
What “social programs for illegals”? Seriously, what planet are these people living on? ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/24 "2010-07-24T02:38:35Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > One incident is one thing. But the media would really pound a concerted effort over months or years involving millions. > > I can’t provide evidence of course, it’s just something I think is likely to happen. And when I dream, I wish for a pony. 😉 Seriously, I can see what you’re saying in terms of hoping that humans would have some compassion for tearing families apart, uprooting children who were born here or who were brought here years ago by their families and this is the only home they’ve known. But realistically, the kinds of people who support these raids and these policies are not going to see undocumented aliens as humans worthy of compassion. And there is an unspoken uneasiness in the hearts of a LOT of Americans who don’t openly support things like the Arizona law or the policy pushes to raid corporations, but who feel “something should be done,” that leads to a deafening silence when families are torn apart. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/25 "2010-07-24T03:37:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Americans are mostly decent people. When news footage shows government agents kicking down doors and throwing people into buses with crying children, the political will would evaporate. Its sad that people need to actually see that footage to actually understand what would happen. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/26 "2010-07-24T04:19:22Z")
Wait, wait, why deport the illegals at all when we could use them as a cheap source of food? ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/27 "2010-07-24T04:30:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Wait, wait, why deport the illegals at all when we could use them as a cheap source of food? The prisoners too. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/28 "2010-07-24T15:42:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > How about just translating one prison day into a working hours worth? So for every hour you work your sentence is reduced by an hour. Basically this would mean you serve time twice as fast while you’re working. > > Which would mean that, once you reached steady-state, you’d only have half as many prisoners. So now, instead of trying to replace 12 million people with 2 million, you’re trying to replace them by 1 million. 1. Your math is a bit off, you won’t halve the number of prisoners. 2. I’m actually ignoring the issue of “replacing illegals” and just spit balling ideas on how to make a prison sentence more rehabilitative and productive. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/29 "2010-07-24T15:54:56Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Americans are mostly decent people. When news footage shows government agents kicking down doors and throwing people into buses with crying children, the political will would evaporate. No, Americans are not mostly decent people. And no, most wouldn’t care, most would gloat over it all. Most wouldn’t even care if the victims were actually illegal immigrants; only that they were brown and generally poor. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/30 "2010-07-24T16:45:36Z")
I think most people are decent, whether they’re american or not, but I have to admit that my perception of American culture isn’t that it puts a lot of emphasis on solidarity. The ultra-competitive, individualistic “winner takes all” dogma has its drawbacks. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/31 "2010-07-24T17:58:06Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > . No, Americans are not mostly decent people. And no, most wouldn’t care, most would gloat over it all. Most wouldn’t even care if the victims were actually illegal immigrants; only that they were brown and generally poor. [/QUOTE] Is there a country that you thing has a greater percentage of “decent people”? Which one(s)? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/32 "2010-07-24T18:11:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Is there a country that you thing has a greater percentage of “decent people”? Probably not. Humans aren’t very pleasant creatures. But I live in America, so the disgusting nature of the typical American is constantly rubbed in my face. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/33 "2010-07-24T18:18:40Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > My simple solutions: > > (1) Penalise the employers of illegal immigrants enough so that it’s not worth their while to employ them. > > (2) Increase the wages of agricultural labourers enough so that legal residents of the U.S. are willing to take those jobs. > > Yes, I do think that it’s all about money. That would increase food and other prices, and destroy America. Maybe we can get Chinese people to cheaply guard the prisoners working in the fields. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/34 "2010-07-24T18:21:25Z")
Speaking as an authority on this subject, even when we carefully screen prisoners to choose the ones we think are least likely to take off, we still have a pretty high rate of abscondence. If you put a million prisoners out to work in a field, I’d estimate at least 300,000 of them will walk off. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/35 "2010-07-24T18:24:49Z")
I think you’d be way out. As someone who has been in prison, I know that the vast majority of prisoners don’t even think about escaping. Unless you are planning on letting lifers work the fields? ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/36 "2010-07-24T18:25:41Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > That would increase food and other prices, and destroy America. Maybe we can get Chinese people to cheaply guard the prisoners working in the fields. Cite that higher food prices will destroy America? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/37 "2010-07-24T19:01:49Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > So is the farmer expected to provide the security? Fields are pretty big, usually with unwalled sides, and you’d need rather a lot of convicts on site to replace the illegals. > > (If I was a criminal bent on escape I’d love this idea.) Well you could install an invisible fence (basically an underground wire) like the ones people use for dogs around the perimeter and put collars on the prisoners that have a small exsplosive charge that detonates if they cross the line. Prisons are already allowed to use lethal force to prevent escapes (including electric fences with lethal voltage). [QUOTE=Stoneburg] …The only problem I see with this is that it would create an incitement to imprison people if someone was allowed to make a profit from the work. [/QUOTE] Bingo. Imagine the entire criminal justice system transformed into a revenue collection service for the state. It’s bad enough when random small towns create speedtraps or big cities use parking enforcement like that. Or those juvenile court judges in PA that were getting kickbacks from a private, _for-profit_, prison for each juvenile they sent there. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/38 "2010-07-24T19:59:34Z")
There are two problems intertwined here, besides the staggering logistical problems. Let us, for the sake of argument, accept a term like “criminal class”, for lack of better. People who are, for whatever reasons, part of that underground. America hates them. With a raw intensity I find perplexing. You cannot help but find a sympathetic ear for the notion that we “coddle” criminals, that the only valid response is harsh and vindictive punishment. For instance, we’ve known about prison rape and homosexual enslavement for many years now, they are a staple of our less savory humorists. It would be fixed, of course, with money, but it won’t be because: we hate them all, victim and victimizer alike. The wonder isn’t that so many convicts are released as violent sociopaths, the wonder is that more are not. We aren’t going to do anything that might help them. The only way to sell this is to offer it as an extension of punishment, an extra helping of our contempt. If you could hide the fact that this might, in some way, actually benefit these men, you would have a chance. But sooner or later somebody is going to make his political name by attacking you for “coddling”. America’s compassion for illegal immigrants is somewhat warmer. ---
**Author:** ![Alpha\_Twit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alpha_twit/32/265_2.png) [@Alpha\_Twit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alpha_Twit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/39 "2010-07-24T22:58:13Z")
I say we hire the illegal immigrants to guard the convict labor force with the understand that if any escape _then_ we’ll deport them. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775/40 "2010-07-24T23:12:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Humans aren’t very pleasant creatures. But I live in America, so the disgusting nature of the typical American is constantly rubbed in my face. It must be very difficult for you to have to live among such moral filth, but please bear with us; we don’t mean to be so evil. Do you suppose you might be able to salvage a modicum of meaning in life if you were to try to help people develop their positive traits instead of constantly complaining about the negative ones? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-deport-illegals-use-volunteer-prisoners-to-work-fields/547775.md?page=3)