# Simple Method for Lay and Lie **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 16, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644 "2010-03-16T14:05:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jormungandr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jormungandr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jormungandr)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/1 "2010-03-16T14:05:58Z")
Today, when I visited my neighbor, his son was studying the difference between lay and lie. He couldn’t understand it. Is there a method that doesn’t use direct and indirect objects, which most methods online do, to know which one to use? As with me then and now, he doesn’t understand that either. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/2 "2010-03-16T14:08:54Z")
“I” lIe myself down didn’t work? ---
**Author:** ![Jormungandr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jormungandr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jormungandr)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/3 "2010-03-16T14:15:44Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > “I” lIe myself down didn’t work? His father gave that example. I countered with “Now I lay me down to sleep.” ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/4 "2010-03-16T14:26:25Z")
Anything that can lie itself down, lies. Anything that can’t do so is lain down by something/one else. Now I lay me . . . is poetic specifically because it separates the brain from the body, and pictures the brain acting upon the body as an object. That’s how I was taught to remember it, but I’m not known for my grammatical prowess, so add salt. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/5 "2010-03-16T14:41:19Z")
> [@Jormungandr](#): > > Today, when I visited my neighbor, his son was studying the difference between lay and lie. He couldn’t understand it. Is there a method that doesn’t use direct and indirect objects You don’t necessarily have to use those _words_ (or “transitive” and “intransitive”), but that’s really the difference: “lay” takes an object, “lie” doesn’t. In other words, you can’t just lay, you have to lay **something**. (“I’m going to lay the book on the table.”) On the other hand, you can’t lie something, you just lie. (“I’m going to lie down for a while”; “The book is lying on the table.”) To further confuse matters, the past tense of “lie” is “lay” (“Earlier this afternoon I lay down for awhile”; “Yesterday the book lay on the table”). The past tense of “lay” is “laid” (“Where is the book that I laid on the table?”). ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/6 "2010-03-16T14:44:29Z")
[quote=“TruCelt, post:4, topic:532644”] Anything that can lie itself down, lies. Anything that can’t do so is lain down by something/one else. QUOTE] So that should be “is lai\*\*d \*\*down by something/one else.” ? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/7 "2010-03-16T14:46:16Z")
You lie down. You lay a dog. ---
**Author:** ![Schadenfreude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@Schadenfreude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schadenfreude)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/8 "2010-03-16T14:49:07Z")
I like to point out that “lie” and “lay” follow the same pattern as “rise” and “raise”. That is, the intransitive verb has the long I sound and the transitive verb has the long A sound. This is easy to remember for anyone who _raises_ their hand in class. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/9 "2010-03-16T14:49:31Z")
Why do you want to avoid direct and indirect objects in your explanation? That’s the fundamental difference right there, and they’re important grammatical parts. You shouldn’t just gloss over them. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/10 "2010-03-16T15:24:21Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Why do you want to avoid direct and indirect objects in your explanation? That’s the fundamental difference right there, and they’re important grammatical parts. You shouldn’t just gloss over them. Because the kid isn’t getting it, is why. Mention that a man was hanged and a picture was hung in the meanwhile. I can’t STAND it when people get that one wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/11 "2010-03-16T15:31:16Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Because the kid isn’t getting it, is why. > > Mention that a man was hanged and a picture was hung in the meanwhile. I can’t STAND it when people get that one wrong. The mnemonic, memorable because it is risque, is that most men want to be hung, but no man wabnts to be hanged. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/12 "2010-03-16T15:36:24Z")
Lie = recline. You recline. You lie down. **THIS IS SOMETHING YOU DO WITH JUST YOURSELF.** Whatever the subject (you, a book, a dog) it lies (somewhere) without manipulating something else. Lay = put/place. You put something down or place it somewhere. You lay it down. **THIS IS SOMETHING YOU DO TO SOMETHING ELSE.** You lay a brick, lay a baby into a bed, lay an egg – there has to be some entity that you are doing the laying to. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/13 "2010-03-16T16:20:07Z")
Another thought: compare lie/lay to go/send. [Whatever the subject is] just goes. But [the subject] doesn’t just send, it sends **SOMETHING**. The something (direct object) may not always be stated, but stated or implied it’s gotta be there. Like “hit,” – if you don’t actually contact a target, then maybe you swing or strike or thrust, but you only hit if you hit **SOMETHING**. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/14 "2010-03-16T16:26:47Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > You lie down. You lay a dog. HEY! She looked pretty good at closing time. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/15 "2010-03-16T16:38:39Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > You lie down. You lay a dog. :eek: This sounds like a line from the ickiest text adventure _ever_. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/16 "2010-03-16T16:40:18Z")
I know, but it’s memorable, yes? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/17 "2010-03-16T17:01:37Z")
What did it for me, before I ‘got’ transitive vs. intransitive verbs, was that “lie” is only one letter off from “die.” You don’t die a person; a person simply dies. Same thing with lie. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/18 "2010-03-16T17:04:45Z")
> [@Schadenfreude](#): > > I like to point out that “lie” and “lay” follow the same pattern as “rise” and “raise”. That is, the intransitive verb has the long I sound and the transitive verb has the long A sound. This is easy to remember for anyone who _raises_ their hand in class. I’ve been trying to get a rise out of my boss. I now see what I’ve been doing wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/19 "2010-03-16T18:33:54Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > What did it for me, before I ‘got’ transitive vs. intransitive verbs, was that “lie” is only one letter off from “die.” You don’t die a person; a person simply dies. > > Same thing with lie. I can see where this would be helpful. You could even compare lie/lay with die/slay, with the rhyming aiding in recalling it. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644/20 "2010-03-16T21:36:27Z")
> [@Jormungandr](#): > > His father gave that example. I countered with “Now I lay me down to sleep.” I used to say that prayer when I was little. For a long time I couldn’t figure out what “Noweye lamie” meant, probably because the reflexive use of “me” is obsolete. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-method-for-lay-and-lie/532644.md?page=2)