# Simple poker question Re: Showing your cards **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 12, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194 "2005-03-12T15:17:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/1 "2005-03-12T15:17:42Z")
Player A and Player B have gone through several rounds of betting and raising. Player A is holding garbage and B has a good hand. A calls B and B shows his hand. A, seeing that he is beaten throws in his cards face down. One friend of mine says that this is OK on the basis that a player can fold at anytime. Another friend says that you must show your cards to show that you were bluffing. The theory being that Player B paid to see A’s cards. I assume that it doesn’t matter which flavor of poker you are playing but if the rules are different for different types, please be specific. I also realize that a friendly game might be different than tournament play so if you play both ways, I’d like to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/2 "2005-03-12T15:21:51Z")
The way we play, If player A called player B’s bet, player b must show is hand as player A payed for the privilege. Player A however is under no constraint to do likewise as he can simply “muck” his hand by throwing it in, face down. This is the way most online poker is played as well. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/3 "2005-03-12T15:26:16Z")
> [@KRM](#): > > One friend of mine says that this is OK on the basis that a player can fold at anytime. Another friend says that you must show your cards to show that you were bluffing. The theory being that Player B paid to see A’s cards. Adding to my reply, no… player B did not pay to see player A’s hand. If player B checked to player A and player A bet, THEN player B has the option to pay to see A’s hand. B’s last bet was an attempt to enlarge the pot, or force others with weaker hands out of the game, not to pay to see what everyone else has. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/4 "2005-03-12T15:42:33Z")
> [@KRM](#): > > One friend of mine says that this is OK on the basis that a player can fold at anytime. Another friend says that you must show your cards to show that you were bluffing. The theory being that Player B paid to see A’s cards. Friend #1 is correct; Friend #2 is wrong. If you concede the hand and muck your cards, you are under no obligation to show them to the rest of the players at the table. Of course, some people _do_ show their cards as part of their strategy. For example, if you play a hand with totally crap cards, it can sometimes be worth showing them to the other players so that people will think you’re a loose player. Then, when you get a good hand, people might be more likely to call or raise. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/5 "2005-03-12T15:49:50Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If you concede the hand and muck your cards, you are under no obligation to show them to the rest of the players at the table. Correct that you are under no obligation to show your cards, however, [any player dealt cards may request to see any called hand](http://www.playwinningpoker.com/articles/poker-rules/). > [@Robert's Rules of Poker](#): > > 1. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent’s hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. ---
**Author:** ![fruitbat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/6 "2005-03-12T16:38:45Z")
To amplify Otto’s response, you may request to see any mucked hand, but it is considered bad form. When you make that request it is assumed that you are asking because you suspect collusion between two players. This is especially true in tournaments where one player may ‘dump’ chips to another player by calling bets and then abruptly mucking on the river. In most cases though the player that mucks may show, but is under no obligation to do so. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/7 "2005-03-12T17:01:11Z")
At the couple of online poker sites where I’ve played, there’s a box each player can check: “Muck losing/uncalled hands” “Muck” (for those who might not know) is throwing your cards in without revealing them I’ve never noticed a call-ee muck his hand at these sites, thus conceding the loss to the caller(s) In fact, I think the software program automatically always reveals the hand of the person who is called. I just logged in at Party Poker and sat out the hand to check if I’d get to see the winning hand - even if I wasn’t dealt any cards. The answer is yes. Watched another hand. Community cards showed a straight 6-T. Five guys stayed in, all hands were shown, and everyone took an equal share of the pot. Never saw a 5-way split before. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/8 "2005-03-12T18:33:56Z")
> [@Antiochus](#): > > I just logged in at Party Poker and sat out the hand to check if I’d get to see the winning hand - even if I wasn’t dealt any cards. The answer is yes. Well, of course everyone gets to see the _winning_ hand. I mean, the only way you can prove you have the best hand is to show it—unless, of course, nobody calls you, in which case you have the privilege of taking the money without showing your cards. The OP’s question was, rather, about whether you get to see the losing hand, when the winner has already shown his hand. This all depends on who calls whom. If i call you, then you have to show me your hand. If my hand is better than yours, then i have to show you my cards if i want to take the pot. If your hand is better than mine, though, i can muck my hand without showing it. > [@Antiochus](#): > > Watched another hand. Community cards showed a straight 6-T. Five guys stayed in, all hands were shown, and everyone took an equal share of the pot. Never saw a 5-way split before. Again, you saw all five hands because everyone won the hand. In a “call” situation, anyone who wants to take the pot has to show his or her hand. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/9 "2005-03-12T23:08:44Z")
Yes, mhendo, I know that your saying. I was responding to Otto’s observation, that: “…you are under no obligation to show your cards, however, any player dealt cards may request to see any called hand.” Although I sat **out** the hands, and thus was **not** dealt any cards, the software allowed me to see the hands. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/10 "2005-03-12T23:19:47Z")
> [@Antiochus](#): > > Although I sat **out** the hands, and thus was **not** dealt any cards, the software allowed me to see the hands. At the site I play, if you’re not dealt cards not only can you not access mucked hole cards, you can’t access the hand history at all. If you’re saying that as a player not in the hand you can see mucked hole cards then that’s a hole in the software that ought to be plugged. ---
**Author:** ![GoneFishing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GoneFishing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoneFishing)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/11 "2005-03-13T04:46:36Z")
I play at Party Poker and the Party Poker Skins and use a software that shows you mucked hands on the showdown - whether you are in the hand or not. Incredibly useful! Don’t want to be spamming so if you are interested search for “Poker-Spy” in your favorite search engine AK ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/12 "2005-03-13T14:15:57Z")
> [@GoneFishing](#): > > I play at Party Poker and the Party Poker Skins and use a software that shows you mucked hands on the showdown - whether you are in the hand or not. > > Incredibly useful! > > Don’t want to be spamming so if you are interested search for “Poker-Spy” in your favorite search engine > > AK Given that you don’t have to show your hand (based on the above replies), this sounds like cheating. Does it work if you are playing for money or just for fun? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/13 "2005-03-13T17:28:57Z")
> [@KRM](#): > > Given that you don’t have to show your hand (based on the above replies), this sounds like cheating. The reason it sounds like cheating is that it is cheating. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/14 "2005-03-13T17:55:54Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > The reason it sounds like cheating is that it is cheating. It might be interesting to have **Sam Stone** ’s input on this because, according to [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5935089&postcount=34), he served as a consultant on the very software that **GoneFishing** uses. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/15 "2005-03-13T18:09:24Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > It might be interesting to have **Sam Stone** ’s input on this because, according to [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5935089&postcount=34), he served as a consultant on the very software that **GoneFishing** uses. Now I’m even more glad I stay away from online games. The program Sam describes may not be cheating in his book, but it certainly is in mine. Consulting references and keeping track of anything through software or on paper – or anywhere but in your head – is cheating as far as I’m concerned. But that’s just one player’s opinion. It’s not up to me to decide what’s allowed and what’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/16 "2005-03-14T03:32:23Z")
> [@S\_t\_D](#): > > Consulting references and keeping track of anything through software or on paper – or anywhere but in your head – is cheating as far as I’m concerned. I wouldn’t go so far as that. First, I doubt there’s time in an online game to consult much of anything in the course of a hand. You only have a few seconds to make your decision. Second, I have no problem at all with keeping notes on players, either on paper or as part of the software. Recording your own observations isn’t cheating. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/17 "2005-03-14T03:43:05Z")
The last person who initiates a bet or raises is the first to show his cards and everyone to the left then either shows their cards also or folds. If its the river and no one initiates a bet, the first person to the left of the dealer has to show his cards first or fold and this continues to the left. ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/18 "2005-03-14T03:56:21Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Recording your own observations isn’t cheating. I think it is, when it’s at the table, even if that table is virtual. The software described in the link sounded very quick and robust. But like I said, just my opinion. I’m old-school. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/19 "2005-03-14T04:00:45Z")
Greg Raymer made a note at the table during the last WSOP (presumably about what a dick Mike Matasow is). How is that cheating? What rule is it violating? ---
**Author:** ![Sample\_the\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sample\_the\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sample_the_Dog)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194/20 "2005-03-14T04:37:35Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > What rule is it violating? Just so’s there’s no confusion, let me repeat: > [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > That’s just one player’s opinion. It’s not up to me to decide what’s allowed and what’s not. > [@Sample\_the\_Dog](#): > > Just my opinion. I’m old-school. Obviously, I have no say in what’s allowed in casinos or tournaments. But anyone who made notes about the game at the table at any of the house games I play in would be told it’s bad form and would not be invited back if he tried it again. It violates the spirit of the game, imho. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-poker-question-re-showing-your-cards/294194.md?page=2)