# Simple question about Israeli Democracy **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 16, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110 "2015-03-16T13:58:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/1 "2015-03-16T13:58:25Z")
I apologize in advance for the perhaps remedial nature of these questions, but the rest of the internet was being less than helpful. Do Palestinians get to vote in Israel? Do other non-Jews get to vote in Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/2 "2015-03-16T14:25:04Z")
Currently, 13 members of the Knesset (the Israeli parliament) are Arabs, including 2 Christians. > **[List of Arab members of the Knesset](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset)** > > There have been Israeli Arab members of the Knesset ever since the first Knesset elections in 1949. The following is a list of the 100 past and present members. Some Israeli Druze dispute the label "Arab" and consider Druze to be a separate ethnic group. However, as they speak Arabic as their first language they are still included in this list. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/3 "2015-03-16T14:37:37Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Do Palestinians get to vote in Israel? Depends on what you mean by “Palestinians”. If you mean “residents of the West Bank & Gaza Strip”, then I believe that the answer is no; these areas were never formally annexed by Israel after the 1967 war, and so effectively remain under military occupation. Since the residents of these territories aren’t residents of “Israel proper”, they don’t have Israeli citizenship rights. I haven’t been able to specifically confirm this online, though, so I would welcome corrections. > [@](#): > > Do other non-Jews get to vote in Israel? Yes, if they’re citizens. Citizenship was conferred to all residents of Israel who remained after the 1948 war, and their descendants as well. [Arab citizens of Israel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel) form about 20% of the population. In addition, anyone living in Israel as a permanent resident for a certain amount of time can apply to be naturalized; however, such applications are [not always granted.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16526469) ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/4 "2015-03-16T15:39:57Z")
Also note that residents of East Jerusalem have the option of accepting Israeli citizenship, since Israel claimed/annexed that area; however, IIRC to do so they must renounce all other citizenship, effectively renouncing Palestinian or Jordanian claims. Apparently doing so can result in reprisals from Palestinian activists, plus many view it as a coercive insult. As non-citizens they would not have a vote. Arabs (1.69 million) are 20% of the Israeli population (8M) and growing; as most are citizens, they can vote. Palestine is occupied territory, not part of Israel - it consists of the West Bank (2.7M) and Gaza (1.7M) and that population of course cannot vote in Israeli elections. They could vote in Palestinian elections, unfortunately the last time they did freely, the occupiers and the losers did not like the results. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/5 "2015-03-16T18:41:33Z")
From my poking around earlier, it appears that at least some residents of the West Bank are recognized by Jordan as its citizens, since Jordan formally annexed the West Bank after the 1948 war. However, residents of the West Bank are not represented in the Jordanian parliament, as Jordan renounced almost all claims to the West Bank in 1988. Egypt, on the other hand, did not extend Egyptian citizenship to the residents of the Gaza Strip. Gazans without any other claim to citizenship are, so far as I can tell, stateless. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/6 "2015-03-16T20:51:51Z")
I thought I had read somewhere that Jordan would provide travel documents (citizenship not included) for West Bank residents if their Palestinian government documents were not acceptable in some countries. The short version is that the UN resolution created 2 countries, Israel (predominantly Jewish) and Palestine (predominantly Arab). The Jordanians, Egypt, and Syria walked across Palestine to try to take on Israel in 1948 and when the dust settled, stayed occupying what was left of Palestine. In 1967 they ended up handing even that over to Israel as occupied territories. Israel is not stupid (well, not _that_ stupid) if they make Palestine part of Israel then eventually those occupants will be Israeli citizens and entitled to vote. At this point Arabs would almost equal the non-Arab population and their numbers are growing much faster. So they are maintained as occupied territories but not part of Israel. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/7 "2015-03-16T21:16:40Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I thought I had read somewhere that Jordan would provide travel documents (citizenship not included) for West Bank residents if their Palestinian government documents were not acceptable in some countries. > > The short version is that the UN resolution created 2 countries, Israel (predominantly Jewish) and Palestine (predominantly Arab). The Jordanians, Egypt, and Syria walked across Palestine to try to take on Israel in 1948 and when the dust settled, stayed occupying what was left of Palestine. In 1967 they ended up handing even that over to Israel as occupied territories. > > Israel is not stupid (well, not _that_ stupid) if they make Palestine part of Israel then eventually those occupants will be Israeli citizens and entitled to vote. At this point Arabs would almost equal the non-Arab population and their numbers are growing much faster. So they are maintained as occupied territories but not part of Israel. The UN resolution provided for the creation of two states, Israel and Palestine. Israel quickly accepted the UN resolution and her statehood but the Arabs rejected it. Hence to this date there is no country named “Palestine.” Since then, they were given opportunities to become a nation in various accords but have rejected them. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/8 "2015-03-16T21:25:52Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > … Since then, they were given opportunities to become a nation in various accords but have rejected them. It’s kind of the other way around now? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/9 "2015-03-17T01:29:59Z")
The great (ok, one of the great) dilemma facing Israel is that it wants to be two things that are potentially incompatible: a democracy, and a homeland for the Jews. Having a 20% minority Arab population as citizens is fine; it shows that Israel is a secular democratic state, but one where Jews just happen to be the overwhelming majority. The question is what happens if that ever changes. The two equally ugly prospects are either becoming a minority again, which historically has not worked out well; or declaring that Israel exists for the Jews, and that people of other ethnicities will not have the same rights as the People in the People’s Land, which would be distressingly similar to a certain German nationalist movement of years past. FWIW, Israel is hardly the only country with this problem; many European countries are wondering if waves of migration are swamping the ethnic character of their countries, which they had taken for granted for centuries. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/10 "2015-03-17T01:59:45Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > Depends on what you mean by “Palestinians”. If you mean “residents of the West Bank & Gaza Strip”, then I believe that the answer is no; these areas were never formally annexed by Israel after the 1967 war, and so effectively remain under military occupation. Since the residents of these territories aren’t residents of “Israel proper”, they don’t have Israeli citizenship rights. I haven’t been able to specifically confirm this online, though, so I would welcome corrections. Presumably Israeli citizens resident in the West Bank - settlers, in other words - get to vote in Israeli elections? Or, on the basis that the West Bank is not part of Israel, are they treated like other expatriate citizens, and denied the vote? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/11 "2015-03-17T03:04:06Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Currently, 13 members of the Knesset (the Israeli parliament) are Arabs, including 2 Christians. > > [List of Arab members of the Knesset - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset) Recent [pertinent article](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/16/world/middleeast/ayman-odeh-arab-alliance-rises-as-force-in-israel-vote.html) in the NYT. > [@](#): > > It was Mr. Lieberman himself who inadvertently helped set in motion a political awakening of Arabs in Israel this election year. Legislation he championed to raise the percentage of votes required to enter Parliament threatened the survival of four small Arab parties, so they decided to unite after years of refusing to do so. > > The move has energized many of Israel’s 1.7 million Arab citizens, whose participation rate in elections had been declining as the parties they supported drifted under fractured leadership and hostile right-wing governments. > > Now, polls cited by the Israeli media suggest the Arab alliance is likely to become the third-largest faction in Parliament with 13 of its 120 seats, potentially preventing Mr. Netanyahu from cobbling together the 61 seats he needs to form a coalition and stay in power. The same polls show that Mr. Lieberman may have more trouble getting his own Yisrael Beiteinu party across the 3.25 percent threshold he designed. > > “The magic turned on the magician,” said Joseph Shakkour, a 25-year-old student and campaign worker for the Joint List, as the Arab alliance is known, using an Arab saying to describe someone getting a taste of his or her own medicine. > > Unlike Arabs in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and most Arab residents of East Jerusalem, Palestinian citizens of Israel have full voting rights. But their turnout in elections has long been lower than that of Israel’s Jews — 56 percent against 68 percent in the 2013 election — and they tend also to be poorer, less educated, and more likely to be unemployed. … > > … Mr. Odeh has changed the tone of Arab politics with a vow to work with Jewish allies to achieve equality for his community. Arab citizens of Israel have long lagged Israeli Jews in education, employment in Civil Service jobs, access to transportation and land allocations. His position is a striking change from incumbent lawmakers like Haneen Zoabi, whose strident Palestinian nationalism has alienated mainstream political parties and ordinary Israelis. > > On the campaign trail, Mr. Odeh invokes the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and quotes Palestinian poetry as he preaches coexistence with the Jewish majority. … Israeli elections are hard to call and the winning the most seats does not mean you have a path to a ruling coalition. Often ruling coalitions are all about strange bedfellows and being handicapped by the deals made to form the alliance. In the past the Arab parties have stated they would not join a coalition if asked and asking would make other partners refuse to be part of the coalition anyway. But if more Arabs vote then a few other smaller parties _might_ not cross the 3.25% threshold (and thus get no seats) - on the Right not only Yisrael Beiteinu but also Yachad+Otzma … and on the Left [Meretz](http://www.jewishjournal.com/hella_tel_aviv/item/meretz_underdog_gaby_lasky_struggles_to_keep_israeli_left_alive). ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/12 "2015-03-17T15:31:54Z")
From a BBC article aout today’s election- > [@](#): > > As Mr Netanyahu cast his vote on Tuesday, he ruled out forming a coalition with the Zionist Union. > … > He also posted a video message on his Facebook page, saying: “Right-wing rule is in danger. Arab voters are going to the polls in droves. Left-wing organisations are bringing them in buses.” Unlike some other ethnic scare tactics in other countries, at least he stopped short of claiming they were voting illegally. But note, the suggestion is that the Arabs typically had a lower turn-out and this may change in this election. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/13 "2015-03-17T16:39:59Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > From a BBC article aout today’s election- > > Unlike some other ethnic scare tactics in other countries, at least he stopped short of claiming they were voting illegally. But note, the suggestion is that the Arabs typically had a lower turn-out and this may change in this election. There’s also a negative implication in the fact that lots of Arabs might have the audacity to exercise their voting rights. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/14 "2015-03-17T19:12:42Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > It’s kind of the other way around now? Israel did offer Arafat a Palestinian state. [Oslo explained | Al Jazeera America](http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/9/13/oslo-accords-explained.html) See also [2000 Camp David Summit - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit) > [@](#): > > Based on the Israeli definition of the West Bank, Barak offered to form a Palestinian state initially on 73% of the West Bank (that is, 27% less than the Green Line borders) and 100% of the Gaza Strip. In 10–25 years, the Palestinian state would expand to a maximum of 92% of the West Bank (91 percent of the West Bank and 1 percent from a land swap).[5][6] From the Palestinian perspective this equated to an offer of a Palestinian state on a maximum of 86% of the West Bank.[5] > > According to the Jewish Virtual Library, Israel would have withdrawn from 63 settlements.[7] According to Robert Wright, Israel would only keep the settlements with large populations. Wright states that all others would be dismantled, with the exception of Kiryat Arba (adjacent to the holy city of Hebron), which would be an Israeli enclave inside the Palestinian state, and would be linked to Israel by a bypass road. Of note, the accords provided that the Palestinians would recognize the state of Israel and expunge from the PLO Charter all references to the destruction of Israel (of which there are many). The PLO announced to the world that it did so and showed the charter with all such provisions expunged; however, the Charter in Arabic still contained those provisions. Having rejected the UN offer and several Israeli offers, the Palestinians again urge statehood, to which Netanyahu and many Israel factions are now opposed. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/15 "2015-03-17T19:23:54Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The great (ok, one of the great) dilemma facing Israel is that it wants to be two things that are potentially incompatible: a democracy, and a homeland for the Jews. Having a 20% minority Arab population as citizens is fine; it shows that Israel is a secular democratic state, but one where Jews just happen to be the overwhelming majority. The question is what happens if that ever changes. The two equally ugly prospects are either becoming a minority again, which historically has not worked out well; or declaring that Israel exists for the Jews, and that people of other ethnicities will not have the same rights as the People in the People’s Land, which would be distressingly similar to a certain German nationalist movement of years past. > > FWIW, Israel is hardly the only country with this problem; many European countries are wondering if waves of migration are swamping the ethnic character of their countries, which they had taken for granted for centuries. One possible solution could be for Israel to surrender ultimate sovereignty to a country that is democratic and likely to overwhelmingly support the Jewish people, e.g. they could ask the US Congress to admit them as a state. There’s a famous incident establishing that a US state cannot unilaterally throw off the Federal government even if a majority of people in the state want to. If the population changes and becomes majority Palestinian and Palestinian leaders start trying to pass laws to persecute Jews, the SCOTUS would just strike them down. Or, Israel could also try to go back and ask to become a British mandate again - not sure how likely the UK would be to go for it. ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/16 "2015-03-17T20:10:29Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > One possible solution could be for Israel to surrender ultimate sovereignty to a country that is democratic and likely to overwhelmingly support the Jewish people, e.g. they could ask the US Congress to admit them as a state. There’s a famous incident establishing that a US state cannot unilaterally throw off the Federal government even if a majority of people in the state want to. If the population changes and becomes majority Palestinian and Palestinian leaders start trying to pass laws to persecute Jews, the SCOTUS would just strike them down. Or, Israel could also try to go back and ask to become a British mandate again - not sure how likely the UK would be to go for it. For sure the Israelis would not go for it. For many years they fought for independence until the Brits threw up their collective hands and handed it over to the UN. Moreover, the idea of relocating to the US occurred to many Jews, but they decided it was better to have their own state so they can be free of persecution, which is not guaranteed in any nation, even the USA. Even if they were admitted as a state, they would have to allow others to settle there under our Constitution. Soon, it might no longer be a Jewish state. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/17 "2015-03-17T22:32:32Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > One possible solution could be for Israel to surrender ultimate sovereignty to a country that is democratic and likely to overwhelmingly support the Jewish people, e.g. they could ask the US Congress to admit them as a state. There’s a famous incident establishing that a US state cannot unilaterally throw off the Federal government even if a majority of people in the state want to. If the population changes and becomes majority Palestinian and Palestinian leaders start trying to pass laws to persecute Jews, the SCOTUS would just strike them down. Or, Israel could also try to go back and ask to become a British mandate again - not sure how likely the UK would be to go for it. Or they could just eat the Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/18 "2015-03-17T22:39:56Z")
> [@barbitu8](#): > > For sure the Israelis would not go for it. For many years they fought for independence until the Brits threw up their collective hands and handed it over to the UN. Moreover, the idea of relocating to the US occurred to many Jews, but they decided it was better to have their own state so they can be free of persecution, which is not guaranteed in any nation, even the USA. Even if they were admitted as a state, they would have to allow others to settle there under our Constitution. Soon, it might no longer be a Jewish state. True, it’s a very politically unlikely idea. But it could be a theoretical alternative to preserve a land open to both Jews and non-Jews with peace enforced by a powerful government that is less likely to be swayed by changes in local demographics. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/19 "2015-03-18T16:43:47Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Currently, 13 members of the Knesset (the Israeli parliament) are Arabs, including 2 Christians. > > [List of Arab members of the Knesset - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arab_members_of_the_Knesset) It’s perhaps worth noting that not all Arabs in the Knesset represent the “Arab” parties, and some represent the “Jewish” parties, including some of the right-with parties (e.g. Likud and Yisrael Beiteinu). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110/20 "2015-03-18T17:03:45Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Or they could just eat the Palestinians. Surely not kosher, no? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-about-israeli-democracy/715110.md?page=2)