# Simple question..Why has the White House stonewalled the 9/11 investigation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 1, 2004, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969 "2004-02-01T00:41:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2004, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/41 "2004-02-02T18:59:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not necessarily. We have the precedent of the previous administration to go by, in which investigation after investigation was used simply as a tool of political and even personal harassment. It wouldn’t take all that much work for Cheney and Rove to get the insinuation across through their usual loyal outlets that any demands for investigations are just partisan politics as is now usual, intended mainly to embarrass the President. “Hey, we did it to them, now they’re just trying to do it to us.” Ehh, I disagree with this conclusion. I think the American public can distinguish between 2800 people dead, and a blowjob. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/42 "2004-02-03T02:57:28Z")
> [@](#): > > _Airman Doors USAF_: > If he had ignored it for a few hours, THAT would have been a big deal, but hanging around for five minutes? Small change. It mattered not one bit. Compare and contrast: > [@](#): > > _[thememoryhole.org](http://thememoryhole.org)_: > At 9:03 AM on 11 September 2001, the second airplane hit the South Tower of the World Trade Center. President Bush was in Florida, at the Emma T. Booker Elementary School, listening to children read. Chief of Staff Andrew Card came over and whispered in Bush’s ear, “A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack.” > What did the Commander in Chief do? Nothing. He sat there. He sat for well over 5 minutes, doing nothing while 3,000 people were dying and the attacks were still in progress. > Not only did the leader of the free world sit as his country was attacked, the Secret Service also did nothing. Bush was appearing in public at a previously announced photo-op. He was a sitting duck. The attacks were ongoing at that point (planes had yet to hit the Pentagon or the field in Pennsylvania), and nobody knew how much more destruction was going to happen. Were there two, three, four, eight more planes hijacked and on their way to crash into prominent buildings? Was one headed for the school, where anyone who checked the President’s public itinerary would know he was located? Were other terrorists planning to detonate dirty nukes? Were they going to release anthrax or smallpox or sarin? Was an assassination squad going to burst into the school and get Bush? Was a suicide bomber going to ram a truck full of explosives into that classroom? > During the midst of the attacks, any of these things could’ve happened. Yet there sits Bush, seemingly unconcerned. His Chief of Staff likewise doesn’t think that America in flames warrants the President’s immediate attention. And the Secret Service utterly fails to do its job by grabbing the President of the United States and getting him to safety. It’s truly inexplicable. If you truly believe that this amounts to an insignificant incident, well, all I can say is that I am truly flabbergasted. And speechless. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/43 "2004-02-03T21:53:32Z")
> [@pantom](#): > > If you truly believe that this amounts to an insignificant incident, well, all I can say is that I am truly flabbergasted. And speechless. You flabbergast easily. Yes, this was an insignificant incident. If Bush had immediately headed for Air Force One, you would have condemned him for cowardice. What the hell do you want - Bush immediately grabbing for the football and nuking cities at random? What were **you** doing five minutes after the attack - hiding in the basement? Really, this is just silly. Bush is a bad guy because he didn’t panic children. :rolleyes: Is that really the best you can do? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/44 "2004-02-04T00:17:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Really, this is just silly. Bush is a bad guy because he didn’t panic children. Let me see, our country was under attack and no one knew exactly what the extent of it was going to be. Where bush was, was not a state secret. Suppose they had been after Bush too? So his staying there could have put the children in danger. And it would have been very easy for Bush to leave without upsetting the children. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/45 "2004-02-04T02:14:00Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Maybe the how is important, but the who? Doesn’t matter who. Besides, it IS Bush’s responsibility, if not his fault. He’s the boss. No matter how much he wants to palm off responsibility on others, it comes down to him, period. On this point I’m not willing to let him get away. The boss is always responsible, and so the boss gets the rap. As it is in the business world that he so loves to say he’s trying to emulate, as it is in this case. > > Realistically, even the how isn’t important. It’s perfectly obvious how it happened. What’s important is that we learn from whatever mistakes we may have made to facilitate the wackos that did it. Other than that? Doesn’t matter. Say you’re the CEO of a company that had a terrible quality problem. Taking responsibility is good, but you can’t expect a CEO to check every product personally. But, if this CEO does absolutely nothing to make sure the problem doesn’t happen again, and even stonewalls the root cause analysis, then you’ve got to wonder, and then the CEO is truly at fault. I think the reason is that the Bushies are so unwilling to admit that they’ve been the slightest bit wrong about anything that they can’t stand an investigation with the smallest chance of finding out anything. I can’t think of any other explanation. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/46 "2004-02-04T02:27:41Z")
First of all, **Shodan** , if you want to engage in a personal attack, you know where that goes. I deeply, deeply resent the personal nature of that reply. Secondly, well there is no secondly, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/47 "2004-02-04T03:06:34Z")
> [@Reeder](#): > > Let me see, our country was under attack and no one knew exactly what the extent of it was going to be. Where bush was, was not a state secret. Suppose they had been after Bush too? So his staying there could have put the children in danger. > > And it would have been very easy for Bush to leave without upsetting the children. C’mon, **Reeder**. I know you are a Bush hater non-pareil, but you can’t really believe that he was “endangering the children”. He spent an extra five whole minutes. It takes me longer to type up most of my posts. This thing was planned way ahead of time. How could they know during that planning that Bush was going to be at a school in Florida at that time? I can just see the thought processes right now: Terrorist 1: Bush isn’t at the White House! Dammit! Change the plan! Terrorist 2: Where is he? Terrorist 1: He’s at some school in Florida. Terrorist 2: OK, we’ll just fly to Florida to get him. Anyone got a road atlas, or maybe we can Mapquest it? Maybe if we call ATC and tell them we need to kill the President they’ll be glad to help! The point is, it’s obvious to anyone watching that day that they weren’t interested in getting Bush. The children weren’t in any danger. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/48 "2004-02-04T03:19:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Was one headed for the school, where anyone who checked the President’s public itinerary would know he was located? So, **Airman** , your contention is that terrorists who killed more people than did the Japanese at Pearl Harbor weren’t capable of checking the publicly known itinerary of Bush on that day and attacking him at that site? If your child was at that school, would you accept that argument? And are you really comfortable with the idea of the President of the United States staring into space after having been told that the country was under attack? Thought experiment: if you can imagine JFK, Bush the Elder or Ike doing this, well, you have a more vivid imagination than I do. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/49 "2004-02-04T03:22:46Z")
Don’t you just love hindsight? No one knew at the time what the hell was going going. What was important to Bush was the photo op. He didn’t leave until the press had gone. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/50 "2004-02-04T13:24:27Z")
> [@pantom](#): > > First of all, **Shodan** , if you want to engage in a personal attack, you know where that goes. I deeply, deeply resent the personal nature of that reply. > Secondly, well there is no secondly, actually. It wasn’t meant to be a personal attack, and I apologize for its coming across that way. I was asking how you reacted to the news of the second plane hitting. Did you instantly run to a place of safety? Did you drop what you were doing without a second’s hesitation, and begin formulating plans to do whatever? Do you think that this is what the President should have done? The question was asked earlier - what difference would it have made if Bush had not spent the extra five minutes demonstrating calm to the children? **Airman** ’s point is perfectly valid - there were no hijacked planes in Florida, thus the President was not under attack and there was no sense in panicking. And, as I said before, if Bush had sprinted instantly to Air Force One, you would condemn him for abandoning the school to terrorist attack. If he doesn’t, then you condemn him for not reacting fast enough. This is the sort of thing that gives pig-headed partisanship a bad name. I expect this sort of thing from **Reeder** ; it is apparently all he is capable of. But this kind of petty sniping ought to be beneath real political debaters. Substantive disagreement is one thing. This kind of foolishness is quite another. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/51 "2004-02-04T16:48:15Z")
Apology accepted. You’re really not getting it though. No one knew what was going to happen next that day. Somewhere around here there’s a post of what I did on that day, BTW, and when I realized I was a potential target - working in a tall building in NYC that was within sight of La Guardia airport - I got out. I heard later that about a half hour after I vacated the cops came by and told everyone to get the H out of there. Now the President is always a target. Comes with the territory. The behavior by him was odd, the Secret Service’s nonchalance was odd, the whole thing was just weird. Were it me, I would have told Card to tell the principal to call a fire drill to get the children out of the building, and then call the police to get police cars to surround the school and a helicopter aloft, if the local PD had one. I would march out with them, and then get in my car or helicopter or however he got there and go. That would at least have done as much as could be done in such a short space to make the children as safe as possible while getting the Presidential butt covered as quickly as possible as well. The Secret Service should also have been doing these things. The reaction should have been instantaneous, because, like I said, no one knew what was going to happen next. **Airman’s** post about the terrorist conversation is absurd; it reflects 100% hindsight. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/52 "2004-02-04T16:56:32Z")
You may be overreaching, **pantom**. People react in different ways to shock - some by jumping into immediate action, some by stunned, silent denial for a time. We were all shocked by the attacks, real information was slow to emerge from the mass of rumors, and to claim that a failure of leadership to react in an immediate and organized and comprehensive way, while that was still the case, is evidence of anything more than shock and confusion is not IMHO warranted. Until the Kean investigation, unhurried and unstonewalled, comes out and says otherwise, I’d really recommend holding your fire on that one. There’s enough to discuss and react to from what we do know about Bush’s actions already. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/53 "2004-02-04T17:10:17Z")
> [@pantom](#): > > Apology accepted. Thank you. > [@pantom](#): > > You’re really not getting it though. No one knew what was going to happen next that day. No, I am getting it just fine. No one knew what was going to happen. Therefore, it would have been unwise for the President, or anyone else, to react before more was known. > [@pantom](#): > > Now the President is always a target. Comes with the territory. Exactly so. Therefore, Bush was no more a target in the five minutes after hearing that the second plane had hit than in the five minutes before, or in the however-long-it-was while he was in the class room before the first plane hit. And therefore there was no need to panic, or to do anything instantly, until it became clear than instant action was better than calm. > [@pantom](#): > > Were it me, I would have told Card to tell the principal to call a fire drill to **get the children out of the building** , and then call the police to get police cars to surround the school and a helicopter aloft, if the local PD had one. \*\*I would march out with them, and then get in my car or helicopter or however he got there and go. \*\* I’m sorry, this is just ridiculous. “These children might be in danger - get them out in the open as soon as possible! Surround the school with cars in case someone crashes an airplane into it! Get a helicopter for no particular reason! EVERYBODY RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!” As you said yourself, nobody knew for certain what the threat was going to be. Snipers shooting at the President has a lot more precedent than crashing airplanes into him, Tom Clancy novels notwithstanding. Do you really want to recommend having the President immediately rush out from cover, **surrounding himself with children** , at the first hint of any trouble? And you have had two years or more to think about what should have been done. Bush, on the other hand, decided to finish what he was doing to avoid panicking the children, get to a secure location, and start collecting information on how to deal with a situation. Nothing similar had occurred in the US for sixty years. Do you really want to establish going off half-cocked as security policy? Please. This remains a completely lame piece of carping. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/54 "2004-02-04T17:24:30Z")
On this particular charge, given the evidence at hand, I find myself in agreement with **Shodan**. I expect this to be taken as proof positive that I am entirely non-partisan and objective, and that the clarity of my analysis is unclouded by prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/55 "2004-02-04T17:54:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > On this particular charge, given the evidence at hand, I find myself in agreement with **Shodan**. I expect this to be taken as proof positive that I am entirely non-partisan and objective, and that the clarity of my analysis is unclouded by prejudice. Nah, you’ve just forgotten how peculiar Bush’s movements were on that day. Here’s an [excruciatingly detailed timeline](http://cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/bushon911.html) of the president’s movements and actions from 6AM, when a van full of middle easterners showed up at his door for an unscheduled interview, through the drive to the school when Bush’s advisors learned of the first crash, and on to Barksdale and Omaha. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/56 "2004-02-04T20:32:05Z")
Oh Dear! Now the wages of stonewalling have come home to roost upon the president’s own Petard: [Bush Backs More Time for 9/11 Panel Report](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=3&u=/ap/20040204/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_9_11_commission) > [@](#): > > On Wednesday, the White House relented, saying it backed moving the deadline to July 26. But White House spokesman Scott McClellan also urged the commission to wrap up its work 30 days after that. If Congress accepts Bush’s recommendation, the report would arrive at the end of August, just as the presidential campaign is entering the post-Labor Day final stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/57 "2004-02-04T20:39:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > On this particular charge, given the evidence at hand, I find myself in agreement with **Shodan**. I hope the board will excuse me while I go lie down somewhere until my head stops spinning. Perhaps a cold compress on my forehead will help. Some of the ice from Hell, for instance. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/58 "2004-02-05T02:58:07Z")
Well, I’d bring some of that ice down on **luc** ’s head, but he lives in Minnesota, which is its own reward in that regard. No, it’s not ridiculous. I don’t know, I must live in some weird universe where people’s lives count, where the commander-in-chief is supposed to, you know, command, where when you’re attacked by a guy named Osama you’re not supposed to turn around to slap a guy named Saddam, where you don’t spend more money than you have, (I drive around, as **Airman** can tell you, in a Ford Crown Victoria LTD station wagon, 14 years old at this point, and I have no intention of relinquishing my steely grip on said land yacht until my son is safely out of college, babes be damned.) and where the military is small, efficient, and geared not towards imperialistic conquest of foreign nations but towards, as crazy as the notion may strike you, national defense. I do realize that this is not the world most people inhabit. It is the world that America inhabited until 1914, though. Which, if you do the math, is the majority of this country’s history. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/59 "2004-02-05T03:13:47Z")
> [@](#): > > 9:03 a.m.) According to Sarasota County Sheriff Bill Balkwill, just after Bush enters a Booker Elementary classroom, a Marine responsible for carrying Bush’s phone walks up to Balkwill, who is standing in a nearby side room. While listening to someone talk to him in his earpiece, the Marine asks, “Can you get me to a television? We’re not sure what’s going on, but we need to see a television.” Three Secret Service agents, a SWAT member, the Marine and Balkwill turn on the television in a nearby front office just as Flight 175 crashes into the WTC. “We’re out of here,” the Marine tells Balkwill. “Can you get everyone ready?” [Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02] So apparently some of Bush’s security want him to leave the school immediately - why does he stay until 9:34? …from Squink’s cite. Bush’s behavior that day was irresponsibility taken to the nth degree. Even if you don’t believe the above, the visual evidence provide by [thememoryhole.org](http://thememoryhole.org) certainly shows it. There’s really nothing else to say. Either you think the commander-in-chief should lollygag around while the nation is attacked, or you don’t. Not much daylight in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![pantom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/34f0e0/32.png) [@pantom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pantom)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969/60 "2004-02-05T03:20:25Z")
And, finally, what happens when you don’t have the benefit of hindsight (just for you, **Airman** ): > [@](#): > > (9:34 a.m.) Bush’s motorcade leaves Booker Elementary School and heads toward Sarasota-Bradenton International Airport. [9:34, Washington Times, 10/8/02, 9:35, Telegraph, 12/16/01] A few days after 9/11, Sarasota’s main newspaper reports, “Sarasota barely skirted its own disaster. As it turns out, terrorists targeted the president and Air Force One on Tuesday, maybe even while they were on the ground in Sarasota and certainly not long after. The Secret Service learned of the threat just minutes after Bush left Booker Elementary.” [Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/16/01] A year later, Chief of Staff Andrew Card says, “As we were heading to Air Force One, we did hear about the Pentagon attack, and we also learned, what turned out to be a mistake, but we learned that the Air Force One package could in fact be a target.” [MSNBC, 9/9/02] Real threat or not, this only increases the strangeness that Bush wasn’t immediately evacuated as some of his security recommended at 9:03. And why would Bush take off in Air Force One without fighter escort if a threat to Air Force One was just discovered? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simple-question-why-has-the-white-house-stonewalled-the-9-11-investigation/226969.md?page=4)