# Simply put, the terrorists have won, and will continue to win. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 29, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718 "2004-04-29T18:29:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/1 "2004-04-29T18:29:42Z")
2 1/2 years ago 20 guys with $3 boxcutters, set this nation along a path to destroy itself. The latest example. > **[Breaking News, World News, US and Local News - NY Daily News - New York Daily...](https://www.nydailynews.com/)** > > Find breaking US news, local New York news coverage, sports, entertainment news, celebrity gossip, autos, videos and photos at nydailynews.com. I can’t fathom the expense or the delays involved, but this is fucking stupid. The point of the convention is to bring money to NY, but what is the point when we turn around and spend bazillions on security? Maybe we get to a point where it’s simply not worth it (say like checking _every single train_ that passes under MSG, all 3,000 of them). You either take your chances getting blown up, or you go hold the thing on an army base. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/2 "2004-04-29T18:45:56Z")
> [@](#): > > By contrast, Boston officials plan to close two transit hubs for a full week, starting three days before the start of the Democratic Convention on July 23. Egads, man, that will effectively shut the city down. For a damn week. The fuck they thinkin’? ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/3 "2004-04-29T18:46:43Z")
Pop quiz, everyone: Which of the following will find themselves inconvenienced, detained, and questioned the MOST by this massive police presence? a) terrorists b) smokers c) squeegee wielding panhandlers d) American citizens exercising their first amendment right to assemble peacefully and protest the actions and policies of the Bush administration (answer: D) ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/4 "2004-04-29T18:53:12Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Egads, man, that will effectively shut the city down. For a damn week. The fuck they thinkin’? That’s right, I forgot about Boston. You think these assholes would take their stupid convention somewhere else, but I guess the little people getting to work is no big deal to them. **RTA** , I’m going with B & D ---
**Author:** ![AmbushBug](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ambushbug/32/4600_2.png) [@AmbushBug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmbushBug)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/5 "2004-04-29T18:53:23Z")
I agree completely with the OP. I raise a question on the boxcutters - I thought that nobody knew how the 9/11 terrorists managed to take control of the four aircraft, and that details involving boxcutters were mere conjecture. [http://edwardjayepstein.com/nether\_fictoid9.htm](http://edwardjayepstein.com/nether_fictoid9.htm) ---
**Author:** ![smoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@smoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smoke)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/6 "2004-04-29T19:00:10Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > That’s right, I forgot about Boston. > > You think these assholes would take their stupid convention somewhere else, but I guess the little people getting to work is no big deal to them. > > **RTA** , I’m going with B & D Actually, smokers won’t be inconvenienced til _after_ the convention. The very types who want the ban don’t want to inconvenience the Dems while they’re throwing money around. And as for the commuters- well, the highways gonna be a mess, the trains into the city will be stopping short of the city and offlloading passengers onto busses. I know a whole lot of people taking vacation that week, or working from home. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/7 "2004-04-29T19:00:16Z")
> [@AmbushBug](#): > > I raise a question on the boxcutters - I thought that nobody knew how the 9/11 terrorists managed to take control of the four aircraft, and that details involving boxcutters were mere conjecture. And what happened to the plastic shivs? On 9/11 itself newscasters kept talking about boxcutters and plastic shivs. The day after it was just boxcutters. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/8 "2004-04-29T19:03:16Z")
> [@smoke](#): > > And as for the commuters- well, the highways gonna be a mess, the trains into the city will be stopping short of the city and offlloading passengers onto busses. They said they were shutting down two hubs. Do they mean Park Street and State Street, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/9 "2004-04-29T19:04:09Z")
> [@](#): > > RTA, I’m going with B & D Well I didn’t ask, but there are certainly websites for that sort of thing. (Or so I hear …) ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/10 "2004-04-29T19:14:27Z")
> [@RTA](#): > > Well I didn’t ask, but there are certainly websites for that sort of thing. (Or so I hear …) B & D with shivs and boxcutters hopefully. 😛 \ As for the hijackers using boxcutters or not, the point is they used a method that is considered “lowtech” would be an understatement. We need to find the line between taking our chances in a tough world and protecting ourselves. I believe we are way to far on the protecting ourselves side. ---
**Author:** ![smoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@smoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smoke)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/11 "2004-04-29T19:32:35Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > They said they were shutting down two hubs. Do they mean Park Street and State Street, perhaps? I don’t believe so. They’re closing down North Station. Check [this article](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/conventions/articles/2004/03/31/shutdowns_set_for_convention/) out to see the true extent of this ridiculousness. The city is essentially shut down and cluster-fucked for a week. ---
**Author:** ![Andros\_X](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Andros\_X](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andros_X)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/12 "2004-04-29T19:38:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Heavily armed NYPD Hercules teams also will descend on stations without notice. Nope, no intimidation of anti-Bush people here, no sirree…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/13 "2004-04-29T19:56:38Z")
> [@smoke](#): > > I don’t believe so. They’re closing down North Station. Check [this article](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/conventions/articles/2004/03/31/shutdowns_set_for_convention/) out to see the true extent of this ridiculousness. > > The city is essentially shut down and cluster-fucked for a week. I see. So what is the point of shutting down North Station if they aren’t going to shut down South Station, I wonder? And shutting down 93? Cluster-fuck, indeed. That might be a nice week to spend on the Vineyard, I’m thinking. If only I could find a way to get there. ---
**Author:** ![smoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@smoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smoke)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/14 "2004-04-29T20:00:30Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I see. > > So what is the point of shutting down North Station if they aren’t going to shut down South Station, I wonder? Well, North Station is the same building as the Fleet Center, which is where the convention is being held. South Station could safely explode without disrupting the convention, and that’s the most important thing here. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/15 "2004-04-29T20:18:17Z")
> [@smoke](#): > > Well, North Station is the same building as the Fleet Center, which is where the convention is being held. South Station could safely explode without disrupting the convention, and that’s the most important thing here. Ah, I see. I am unfamiliar with that neighborhood. I also see that terrorists only go after politicians and never civilians. A lesson we learned on 9/11. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/16 "2004-04-29T20:24:47Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I also see that terrorists only go after politicians and never civilians. A lesson we learned on 9/11. :dubious: Yeah, good point. Sadly it’s only going to get worse. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/17 "2004-04-29T21:09:37Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Yeah, good point. > > Sadly it’s only going to get worse. Yeah, and you know what the next step is, don’t you? There are two possibile outcomes, and they both lead the “security” fanatics to essentially the same conclusion. Possibility 1: There is a terrorist attack. Possibility 2: There is no terrorist attack. If 1, then the security measures we have taken are not extreme enough, and we have to employ even more stringent measures in the future. If 2, then this demonstrates the success of our security measures, so we’d better continue using them. It’s a very convenient situation for the “security” fanatics. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/18 "2004-04-29T22:20:37Z")
It might well get worse under Kerry. Speaking today to the National Conference of Black Mayors, he blasted the Bush administration for failing to protect dozens of chemical plants in the US and leaving them vulnerable to terrorist attack. Surely, there are quite many sites of varying descriptions that may be considered vulnerable to terrorist attacks. If Kerry sticks to his word (which he has failed to do recently, in fact) then it seems likely that places all over the country will have heightened security. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/19 "2004-04-29T22:57:39Z")
On the other hand, if there is a terrorist attack, everyone will be screaming, “_The government didn’t do enough! Why didn’t they protect us?!_” – **Eve** (who’s no fan of Bush, but fair is fair) ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718/20 "2004-04-29T23:22:51Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > It might well get worse under Kerry. Speaking today to the National Conference of Black Mayors, he blasted the Bush administration for failing to protect dozens of chemical plants in the US and leaving them vulnerable to terrorist attack. Surely, there are quite many sites of varying descriptions that may be considered vulnerable to terrorist attacks. If Kerry sticks to his word (which he has failed to do recently, in fact) then it seems likely that places all over the country will have heightened security. Kind of a hijack here, but, **Libertarian** , you seem to jump on the Democrats and Kerry pretty often (and god knows there are good reasons to do just that). I remember years back, when I was kind of flirting with small-l libertarianism and the Libertarian Party in particular, I went to a convention in Albany, New York. This was during the Reagan/Carter election. Murray Rothbard was the convention speaker, and you can’t imagine a more dyed-in-the-wool libertarian. I remember distinctly him saying that Regan and the Republicans were the real threat to liberty, not Carter and the Democrats. I don’t hear that kind of thinking much anymore among libertarians (or Libertarians). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/simply-put-the-terrorists-have-won-and-will-continue-to-win/242718.md?page=2)