# Sinatra: Great singer, tiny man **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 1, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887 "2016-01-01T05:27:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/61 "2016-01-02T18:19:43Z")
> [@Enter\_the\_Flagon](#): > > If you could ask these people if Sinatra was a brilliant singer, probably every one of them would agree that he was - such is his reputation among vocalists. I saw the first person on **Robert163** ’s list, Van Morrison, in concert a few days after Sinatra died. He performed “That’s Life” as a tribute. Joni Mitchell, on the same bill, replaced the reference to Benny Goodman in “Hejira” with “strains of Old Blue Eyes coming through the snow and the pinewood trees.” ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/62 "2016-01-02T18:22:07Z")
In an article in _Cracked,_ Ed Sullivan is facetiously (and hypothetically) quoted as calling Sinatra “the little man with the big voice…or is it the other way around?” ( the article suggests what would happen if everyone talked like Don Rickles.) ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/63 "2016-01-02T18:29:22Z")
Is Bill Cosby still funny? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/64 "2016-01-02T19:09:08Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > And I thought the general response to that was that brilliant talented people are often problematic, troubled individuals, and, that part of their genius stems from those flaws, that genius and madness (for lack of a better word) are inseparable. This is a sad statement if true… and if true, its Utterly Damning. Sure, a talented individual with that kind of temperament can and does exist (and succeeds) today. You could say that someone like that could be "plug-and-chugged’ into any entertainment show broadcast after the news ends at 11:30 at night… and would hold their market share. You could say that they could also be easily “plug-and-chugged” into any “radio personality” slot in existence and would do the same. I’m not trained to know why assholes exist or why we tolerate them in exchange for their talent. I also can’t say why people with equal talent who are not assholes don’t outshine them at every turn. Do damaged assholes succeed and survive by targeting and trying to destroy any threat to their Hindenburg-sized fragile egos in their fields… the same way older and bigger fish in a fish tank pick on and try to eat up newer and smaller fish that you just bought and added? Its enough to wonder if people who keep salt water tanks don’t ever just give away fish so they can start over fresh and with a full variety on equal footing. That or say “fuck it”, drop in a plugged in lamp, and take up stamp collecting. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/65 "2016-01-02T19:20:54Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > This is a post I wish I had the ability to make. Well done, sir. Hey, cool. No dig intended, to be clear. I have some singers who take on a song in ways I don’t get or like. **Count Blucher** - whatever it takes to bet your life on your art is not something I have. But since all Humans have the flaws to be jerks, I don’t find it a surprise that many artists are, too, especially if they have fought for their efforts to be heard. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/66 "2016-01-02T20:21:55Z")
Tina Sinatra said her father had a vasectomy long before Ronan Farrow was born. Also around the time Ronan was conceived Sinatra had a lot of health problems, he even had a colostomy during that time. So it’s very unlikely he was having sex with anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/67 "2016-01-02T22:32:40Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > And probably fathered a child with her 20 years later. Her son Ronan was long believed to be the offspring of her and Woody Allen, but he looks EXACTLY like Frank… An earlier Doper discussion: [Mia Farrow says her child with Woody might be Sinatra's - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=703754) ---
**Author:** ![turner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@turner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turner)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/68 "2016-01-03T03:01:16Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I really don’t get what his appeal is/was. > > I get that he has a good voice. I get that he has the right “attitude” both singing and in his life away from singing, to be a rock/pop star. But his actual singing is so monotone. There is no inflection, no subtlety, no passion, he’s just boring to listen too, even if his voice is gifted. > > What am I missing? His older stuff was like that–pretty much just telephoning it in–at that point people went to see Sinatra and if they were disappointed by the actual performance, so what. I’m 52. Sinatra was really my mom and dad’s generation of music, but what I like about him, Dean Martin and Bing Crosby was how they used their voice as an instrument. Inflection, tonality, reverberation all added to the vocalization to make the music memorable. You don’t get that much now days where singers who have range and potential just try to show it off by screaching high notes. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/69 "2016-01-03T12:35:10Z")
Musicality is boring now. Bold emotion is everything. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/70 "2016-01-03T16:44:19Z")
That says a great deal about the disintegrating mentality of the general population. Bold emotion…why bother with thinking anymore? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/71 "2016-01-03T18:15:01Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > **Count Blucher** But since all Humans have the flaws to be jerks, I don’t find it a surprise that many artists are, too, especially if they have fought for their efforts to be heard. Yeah, but nobody holds them to account or even curbs their stinking asses when their “old” skills are basically done but they are going after the next 5-6 generations of entertainers. Nobody tells the money men, “Heya, Jethro! Guess ya don’t want them Billions when ya can make a million … maybe even MORE… offa this here OLD talent. Gots ta Luv that New Math… aya!” Oh, who am I kidding? Anyone with That kind of money probably doesn’t even read us here. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/72 "2016-01-03T19:09:44Z")
Yeah…someone who gathers all the money he can while he’s alive, so he’ll be really rich when he’s dead. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/73 "2016-01-04T08:57:02Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > This is \*unsourced, so take it FWIW, but. . . > > Someone once asked Ava Gardner what she saw in that scrawny singer who probably only weighed about 100 pounds. Her response: “Yeah, but 50 pounds of that is ¢o¢k!” > > \*A publication called “The Book of Sexual Records” was my source, but they didn’t indicate theirs. This was the first thing I thought of when I saw the the thread title, but I remember it as something like “There may only be 120 lbs of Frank but he has 100 pounds of cock.” ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/74 "2016-01-04T09:02:34Z")
Boring and slightly monotonic as it was, I thought it was how a man should sing. Elvis had even more appeal in that respect. Jacko’s a dancer and little else in my book. The Beatles wrote great songs. Anything else I should consider? ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/75 "2016-01-04T15:05:26Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Boring and slightly monotonic as it was, I thought it was how a man should sing. Elvis had even more appeal in that respect. Jacko’s a dancer and little else in my book. The Beatles wrote great songs. > > Anything else I should consider? Yes. How about contemporary singers? I mean those who really sing–bold emotion be damned. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/76 "2016-01-04T15:12:46Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Yes. How about contemporary singers? I mean those who really sing–bold emotion be damned. I would start a new thread looking for new Sinatra-type singers/crooners. There are plenty out there. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/77 "2016-01-04T17:37:11Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I would start a new thread looking for new Sinatra-type singers/crooners. There are plenty out there. I guess I’ll have to…You can’t find things like that on radio any more. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/78 "2016-01-04T17:52:12Z")
I think of John Legend and Harry Connick Jr. as modern day crooners. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/79 "2016-01-04T18:00:28Z")
[I found a Wiki list of crooners](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_crooners) – Connick is on it, but John Legend isn’t. The only other name I recognize as even close to contemporary is Luther Vandross. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887/80 "2016-01-04T18:08:38Z")
If you like Frank, Bing, Dino, Tony, et. al. you will almost certainly like Michael Bublé. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael\_Bubl%C3%A9](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bubl%C3%A9) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinatra-great-singer-tiny-man/741887.md?page=5)