# Since I can't be honest in GD . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 27, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768 "2009-05-27T02:40:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/601 "2009-05-31T00:41:34Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, it’s up to you explain how it is a right, since that’s claim being made. Can you do that? Declaration of Independence: “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are [Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life,_liberty_and_the_pursuit_of_happiness).” _Loving v. Virginia_: “The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.” The states are merely refusing to recognize an existing right. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/602 "2009-05-31T00:44:50Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, it’s up to you explain how it is a right, since that’s claim being made. Can you do that? 14th Amendment. Your move. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/603 "2009-05-31T00:54:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > 14th Amendment. > Your move. You’re arguing what should be, not what is. Gay marriage is not a right in 95% of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/604 "2009-05-31T00:57:27Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > You’re arguing what should be, not what is. Gay marriage is not a right in 95% of the United States. So it _is_ a right in the other 5%? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/605 "2009-05-31T00:58:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So it _is_ a right in the other 5%? No ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/606 "2009-05-31T00:59:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Kinda think when Fred shows up with John, the cat’s more or less out of the bag. Doesn’t much matter what you call it, if two guys are doing it, well… > > So I can’t see as how my suggestion (only a _suggestion_, mind you…) puts anyone at any more risk. Not making a whole lot of sense there, Slim. No, you are just contradicting yourself. First you say there’s no similarity between segregation and a civil union/marriage split because it’s easy for gays to pass as a straight; then you say that “when Fred shows up with John, the cat’s more or less out of the bag”. It’s one or the other. The simple fact is that someone can’t officially solemnize their relationship without disclosing that the relationship exists. And that they can’t sign up with an institution created for the purpose of discriminating against them without being discriminated against. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/607 "2009-05-31T01:00:28Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No Your stupidity cannot be completed as dialed. Please hang up and try again. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/608 "2009-05-31T01:18:46Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, it’s up to you explain how it is a right, since that’s claim being made. Can you do that? Do you have any nonreligious reason to ban gay marriage? Do you believe in banning random things? The only argument left against it seems to be “it’s a sin!”. Therefor the ban on gay marriage is a violation of separation of church and state, as it’s a policy intent on solely giving one set of religious beliefs state backing, and violating the religious rights of gay couples. I shall take your lack of reply as agreement of my position. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/609 "2009-05-31T01:19:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, the collective will just have to take care of itself. As far as I know, the U.S. Constitution focuses on the rights on individuals, and restricting the rights of whole groups (or “collectives” if you prefer) has been in decline since at least the 13th Amendment. In any case, it remains unclear how the rights of one collective (evangelicals) are negatively impacted by improving the rights of another (homosexuals). I’m not talking about rights. > [@](#): > > Well, that’s always been the case. Men who objected to women getting the vote must have seemed quite old-fashioned and out of touch in 1950, and someone who felt that way in 1970 would likely seem _very_ fringe/looney. What’s changed most, I guess, is the pace of change itself. I attribute it, at least in part, to the access to a broader range of cultures helped along by film and television. Yes, and the internet has made it even more extreme. > [@](#): > > Well, either the evangelicals moved away from the mainstream, or the mainstream moved away from them. C’est la vie. Probably a bit of both. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/610 "2009-05-31T02:14:44Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Do you have any nonreligious reason to ban gay marriage? Do you believe in banning random things? > > The only argument left against it seems to be “it’s a sin!”. Therefor the ban on gay marriage is a violation of separation of church and state, as it’s a policy intent on solely giving one set of religious beliefs state backing, and violating the religious rights of gay couples. > > I shall take your lack of reply as agreement of my position. I don’t need a reason, honey. At least not one I need to explain to the likes of you. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/611 "2009-05-31T02:28:10Z")
Thanks **Carol Stream** for taking the heat off of me. 😉 It’s your turn in the barrel my ass is sore. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/612 "2009-05-31T02:30:02Z")
You know who else didn’t need to give an explanation? Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/613 "2009-05-31T02:41:37Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > I don’t need a reason, honey. At least not one I need to explain to the likes of you. Don’t feed the troll, who is trolling. Troll. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/614 "2009-05-31T02:45:27Z")
Well, Carol Extreme is kind of a pet. So its different. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/615 "2009-05-31T02:48:35Z")
Like Socks the Cat? You know who owned him? Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/616 "2009-05-31T02:53:03Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > I don’t need a reason, honey. At least not one I need to explain to the likes of you. AKA you you got none. Thanks for agreeing my position is correct. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/617 "2009-05-31T02:57:45Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Don’t feed the troll, who is trolling. > > Troll. No, the trolls are the silly little college students, with too much time on their hands, (why aren’t they working?) who spout off nonsense repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/618 "2009-05-31T03:00:31Z")
You know who did well at college? Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/619 "2009-05-31T03:14:54Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, the trolls are the silly little college students, with too much time on their hands, (why aren’t they working?) who spout off nonsense repeatedly. I am, in fact, working right now. And I haven’t seen a lot of nonesense here, just solid deduction and reasoning, which you seem to be ignoring, such as **bosstones** excellent post right here. > [@bosstone](#): > > Declaration of Independence: > > “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” > > Loving v. Virginia: > > “The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.” > > The states are merely refusing to recognize an existing right ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768/620 "2009-05-31T03:24:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > You know who did well at college? > Clinton. Once again, your opinion about American politics is blindingly irrelevant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-i-cant-be-honest-in-gd/497768.md?page=32)