# Since no one else is doing it, I pit...me! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 2, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031 "2005-11-02T03:53:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/21 "2005-11-02T13:13:29Z")
Other people have somehow gotten the impression that you are reasonable or worthwhile. Frankly, I have no idea where they are getting this from, because everything I have ever seen from you is _entirely_ like the posts you are referring to in the O.P. Mindless, evasive, devoid of content, implacably conservative bootlicking. So much so that my opinion of others who voice support for you has been tarnished. At least, I have had to wonder about their taste. Until now. I appreciate your making such a statement as you have in the OP, and showing the capacity for self reflection. If it hasn’t significantly changed my overall impression of you, it has led me to believe that such might be possible. Perhaps **Zoe** isn’t crazy after all. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/22 "2005-11-02T15:44:13Z")
**Eleusis** , I tried to fix the coding of your screwed-up post, but I’m not sure it now says what you intended it to say, since the words in the quote tags aren’t anywhere else in the thread. Report another post with details on how it should look if I did it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/23 "2005-11-02T16:23:36Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Dammit! I was SO ready to come in here and call **Starving Artist** a MOTHER FUCKER for no apparent reason. But then **he** got all mushy on me … and > [@Zoe](#): > > Where are you going, **Mr. Artist**? and > [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > …not least because you’re a decent sort of **guy** … and > [@Miller](#): > > For someone who’s absolutely wrong about absolutely everything, you’re a pretty good **guy** , **Starving**. and > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Seriously, I actually do consider you to be a fine and cordial **fellow** … Ok, now i’m seriously confused. For a long time, i was under the impression that **Starving Artist** was a guy. Then, i seem to recall reading something on these boards that suggests that this was not true, so i 've been working under the assumption that she was a woman. Now all these references to **SA** as a man again. My head’s going to asplode if someone doesn’t give me the straight dope. Well, if nothing else, at least my confusion demonstrates that i believe wilful ignorance to be a gender-indiscriminate character trait. Like **Hentor** , i’ve seen no evidence of the sort of things that people are praising the OP for, although i admit to not have seen every thread that **SA** has participated in, so it’s entirely possible that my impression is based on insufficient evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/24 "2005-11-02T17:41:16Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Dammit! I was SO ready to come in here and call **Starving Artist** a MOTHER FUCKER for no apparent reason. \ It bears repeating. Also, I am 99 9/10 sure that **Starving** is male. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/25 "2005-11-02T18:34:46Z")
There’s an MPSIMS thread dated December 2003, in which a poster asks us all to welcome her uncle, **Starving Artist** to the boards, so there’s your last 0.1% ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/26 "2005-11-02T18:39:31Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Like **Hentor** , i’ve seen no evidence of the sort of things that people are praising the OP for, although i admit to not have seen every thread that **SA** has participated in, so it’s entirely possible that my impression is based on insufficient evidence. I’ve emailed with **SA** , and yes, he is a good guy if you stay off politics. He has a powerful set of preconceptions in that area that are so ingrained I really do accept that he genuinely believes what he says, and can’t free himself of the worldview they create. With his reality filtered through that worldview, he finds copious evidence of the positions he holds – because that’s all that his worldview permits him to see. I’m sorry, **SA** , if you feel that analysis demeans you, but this is what I see. Indeed, it’s why I usually can shrug off your liberal-bashing. Not least because I know I have my own blind spots and preconceptions that warp the reality I perceive. Stones, glass houses, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/27 "2005-11-02T18:49:42Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > I’ve emailed with **SA** , and yes, he is a good guy if you stay off politics. He has a powerful set of preconceptions in that area that are so ingrained I really do accept that he genuinely believes what he says, and can’t free himself of the worldview they create. With his reality filtered through that worldview, he finds copious evidence of the positions he holds – because that’s all that his worldview permits him to see. Yeah: my two problems with **SA** have been: 1. He is one of those people who spends way too much time stereotyping his political opposition, not admitting that folks who disagree with him politically **may** have arrived at their opinions through deep thought and rigorous analysis of the world. 2. He sometimes offers laughably bad justifications for his viewpoints; and, when it’s proven beyond doubt that they’re laughably bad, he handwaves the objections with [paraphrased], “Okay, but that one example is part of a pattern.” If you can’t find a single good example of a pattern, you really need to be questioning whether the pattern actually exists. other that that, he seems like a nice guy. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/28 "2005-11-02T19:04:51Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > For a long time, i was under the impression that **Starving Artist** was a guy. Then, i seem to recall reading something on these boards that suggests that this was not true, so i 've been working under the assumption that she was a woman. Now all these references to **SA** as a man again. My head’s going to asplode if someone doesn’t give me the straight dope. Maybe you’ve confused him with **Starving but Strong**? > [@Giraffe](#): > > Eleusis, I tried to fix the coding of your screwed-up post, but I’m not sure it now says what you intended it to say, since the words in the quote tags aren’t anywhere else in the thread. Report another post with details on how it should look if I did it wrong. No, that’s in the OP, but I think **Eleusis** misunderstood the context. > [@tomndebb](#): > > There is a stereotype of people who are mentally retarded that they tend to “forget” to keep their mouths closed when they are not talking or eating as (presumably) most people do. (The validity of the observation or stereotype has been batted around on the board, before, but that is the origin of the expression.) Huh. I always took it for another way of calling someone slack-jawed. That is, they stand around with their mouth open, looking dopey. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/29 "2005-11-02T19:13:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Huh. I always took it for another way of calling someone slack-jawed. That is, they stand around with their mouth open, looking dopey. That’s the connotation it has always had for me. I remember noticing this first when I was a kid and was visiting a friend’s house, watching television. I remember noticing that he and all his siblings were sitting there all with their mouths open the whole time. They weren’t the brightest bulbs, but they were hardly retarded, and when I later heard the term “mouth-breather,” I immediately thought of them. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/30 "2005-11-02T19:19:46Z")
[People with Down syndrome often have a protruding tongue and are mouth breathers](http://www.ds-health.com/dental.htm): > [@](#): > > The primary skeletal abnormality affecting the orofacial structures in Down syndrome is an underdevelopment or hypoplasia of the midfacial region. The bridge of the nose, bones of the midface and maxilla are relatively smaller in size. In many instances this causes a prognathic Class III occlusal relationship which contributes to an open bite (Vittek et al, 1994). Absence or reduction in size of the frontal and maxillary sinuses is common. > > The incidence of mouth breathing is very high due to a small nasal airway. The tongue may protrude and appear to be too large. True macroglossia is rare, rather a relative macroglossia is found where the tongue is of normal size but the oral cavity is decreased in size due to the underdevlopment of the mid-face. Upon examination the palate in a person with Down syndrome appears to be narrow with a high vault. In actuality the vault is of normal height but the sides of the hard palate are abnormally thick. This creates less space in the oral cavity for the tongue, affecting both speech and mastication. ---
**Author:** ![liirogue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dbc845/32.png) [@liirogue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liirogue)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2005, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/31 "2005-11-02T22:40:08Z")
Things haven’t been much different in real life, either… ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/32 "2005-11-03T02:34:20Z")
> [@Bob Loblaw](#): > > If you want to be a saint, follow Polycarp around and emulate. {QUOTE= RT]Excuse me while I barf. [/QUOTE] > [@Ferret Herder](#): > > [You don’t approve?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycarp) Must be a misunderstanding - I thought he was attempting to canonise “Polycarp of rural North Carolina”. Hence the vomit. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/33 "2005-11-03T07:09:25Z")
Thank you all for your comments. I’ve been out of the house all day and most of the evening. I will try to return tomorrow to answer some of the points that have been raised and to give thanks where due, which, frankly, is really pretty much to everyone. Also, yes, I’m a guy. I don’t know where the recent confusion comes from, but this is about the third time over the last week that someone said they thought, heard or read that I was female. Maybe like **Miller** said, perhaps **Starving but Strong** and I are being confused – provided of course that **SbS** is indeed a female. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/34 "2005-11-03T07:19:09Z")
**Hentor the Barbarian** : Perhaps Zoe isn’t crazy after all. Gosh, I’m getting all warm and fuzzy. I think I hear Charlie Brown Christmas music in the distance… ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2005, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/35 "2005-11-03T07:55:50Z")
**Zoe** , dammit, I wish it wasn’t so hard to talk to you! So often there are things I’d like to say to you offline, but that six-weeks-to-maybe-never response time is a real killer. 😉 But thank you very much for your post. You said many things in that short post that meant a great deal to me. You are a very perceptive person with a great heart. From you, I learn about myself. And thank you, too, for the things you said about my post regarding Rosa Parks. I’m doubly pleased to have made it now that I know it meant so much to you. Now, I’m gonna get out of here before _Kumbaya_ starts to play in everyone’s mind. 😃 Many, many regards to you, dear **Zoe** , **SA** ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/36 "2005-11-04T09:12:00Z")
Man, I am _puffed!!!_ I spent about an hour and a half writing detailed responses to everyone who posted messages here to me. I was just starting on the last one, which I saved for last and which was addressed to **EddyTeddyFreddy**. I got about two lines into it and the computer went blooey…or more accurately, the monitor did. Lately it’s been going out with no notice and when I try to turn it back on, it just sits there and clicks. I have to leave it off for 2 1/2 to 6 hours and then it’ll come back on. That is what happened and why I haven’t responded til now. But perhaps it is just as well. I was thanking everybody and adding appreciative comments and I was beginning to sound like an Academy Award winner at the podium. 😛 But let me just say thanks to everyone who posted. Your comments were much appreciated. There are things I’d like to say to each of you who posted, but it’s getting late and the prospect of recreating my earlier post seems daunting right now. I want to let you all know that I’ve taken note of what you’ve said, and perhaps I’ll be a more interesting and productive poster in the future. I especially thank you, **EddyTeddyFreddy** , for the things you had to say. I’m glad to hear I haven’t alienated you completely and that you are willing to forgive me for the comments I made that offended you so deeply. You know, and I know you know, that they weren’t aimed at you…but I understand how offensive they were to you and I’m truly sorry for that. It’s true that I have always tended to group liberals into a monolithic group, despite the fact that many different and disparate people and ideas fall under the liberal umbrella. Perhaps this is because we conservatives tend to be of a like mind on most issues, so I tend to think those in the liberal camp do the same. But as your posts show, and as postings in the threads I’ve been involved in lately show, the Democrat party and the “liberal camp” as I call it, are made up of a variety of different groups with different concerns and different goals. It truly isn’t fair to paint all liberal individuals with the same broad brush, and I want you to know, **ETF** , that I will truly take pains not to do so in the future. If you should find at some point that I am, I welcome you to remind me of my post here. To you guys that I have never gotten along with ( **LHoD** and **mhendo** ) thanks for showing your willingness to cut me some slack and keep an open mind. **kaylasdad99** and **Miller** are always class acts. I appreciate the things you said. **crowmanyclouds** , **FinnAgain** and **Harborwolf** , thanks for your gracious acceptance of my apology. (And **Harborwolf** , thanks for the link. I gotta get of one of those bad boys before next spring. 😉 ) **roger** , what can I say? You’re one of my favorite posters and an almost intimidatingly intelligent guy. I’m proud you consider me a “mate.” **calm kiwi** and **Zoe** , you’re two of the sweetest of the Pit’s denizens, and I’m glad that you both seem able to take my posts in the spirit they’re intended. **SHAKES** and **gatopescado** , both you guys made me laugh out loud. And thank you, **Little Nemo** and **Bob Loblaw** for your understanding and encouraging comments. I appreciate them very much, especially since we haven’t had that much interaction ourselves and you took the trouble to post. I appreciate everyone who posted here very much. I think your kind and understanding words kept this thread from becoming the four-pager I thought I was going to be in for. Regards, **SA** ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/37 "2005-11-04T09:39:56Z")
Thanks Miller, you were right in that I wanted a cite for you being a slack-jawed knuckle-dragger… I always thought you were the opposite, and I think I’ve found vindicatin there. I most certainly missed the context and thought you were being insulted in the OP… I tried to defend you. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/38 "2005-11-04T13:46:42Z")
:: Puts clue stick away :: Well done, my friend. No, of course you haven’t alienated me, and I’m delighted to see your thoughtful reaction to what’s been said to you. Have no fear, the clue stick is at hand should you backslide. 😉 Here, have some pie. 😃 No, not humble pie, silly – how about crumble-crust apple? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/39 "2005-11-04T16:45:52Z")
I appreciate that, **Eleusis**. ---
**Author:** ![Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@Bob\_Loblaw\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob_Loblaw_1)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031/40 "2005-11-04T18:05:09Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > {QUOTE= RT]Excuse me while I barf. Must be a misunderstanding - I thought he was attempting to canonise “Polycarp of rural North Carolina”. Hence the vomit. [/QUOTE] I meant the SDMB Polycarp, not the Saint from Smyrna who has already been sainted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-no-one-else-is-doing-it-i-pit-me/329031.md?page=3)