# Since when is China larger than Canada (territory) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 3, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423 "2003-01-03T15:17:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/21 "2017-01-02T14:06:58Z")
> [@syncrolecyne](#): > > I’m sort of getting away from the point, but is the majority of Greenland’s area ice cap? Yet, officially it is the world’s largest island. Maybe if we all got together and sprayed a bumload of Aquanet, it would shrink down to make New Guinea the world’s largest island. Old thread, but it would be nice to get an answer, if we have one. How big is Greenland if we do the same thing and get rid of the ice? Heck, is it even all one island? And, BTW, if anyone does say that Greenland is larger that Australia, they probably saw it on one of those bad map projections, like the Mercator projection. Even my grade school chose to use two hemispheres rather than do that and confuse the kids who looked at the globe. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/22 "2017-01-02T14:47:50Z")
Ice is not counted as part of a landmass. However, the Greenland ice sheet is actually smaller than the landmass, so melting it wouldn’t make the island any smaller anyway. And of course Greenland is not one island. That would be an unbelievably rare occurrence for a landmass of that size. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/23 "2017-01-02T15:00:46Z")
> [@Stevepap](#): > > Who says Greenland is larger than Australia? My 3rd-grade teacher did. Greenland is obviously much larger — just look at any Mercater projection. Even little Septie knew better than. And I had nine more years of public schools to face. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/24 "2017-01-02T15:02:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, BTW, if anyone does say that Greenland is larger that Australia, they probably saw it on one of those bad map projections, like the Mercator projection. Even my grade school chose to use two hemispheres rather than do that and confuse the kids who looked at the globe. The Mercator isn’t a “bad map projection”. As [this site](http://brilliantmaps.com/xkcd/) says, ‘all map projections distort the surface in some fashion.’ All have their advantages and disadvantages. > [@](#): > > The Mercator … became the standard map projection for nautical purposes because of its ability to represent lines of constant course, known as rhumb lines or loxodromes, as straight segments that conserve the angles with the meridians. > > The two properties, conformality and straight rhumb lines, make this projection uniquely suited to marine navigation: courses and bearings are measured using wind roses or protractors, and the corresponding directions are easily transferred from point to point, on the map, with the help of a parallel ruler or a pair of navigational protractor triangles. Its disadvantages are as you know. Different projections serve different purposes. If the Mercator were simply a bad projection it would have been consigned to history long ago. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/25 "2017-01-02T15:14:26Z")
Yeah, Mercator definitely has its uses. For instance, it’s the projection used by Google Maps, and indeed is the _only_ flat projection that meets Google Maps’ needs. It just shouldn’t be the default, is all. Personally, I don’t know why more general-purpose maps don’t use the Goode-Holosine projection, or something similarly interrupted. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/26 "2017-01-02T15:23:18Z")
I believe current theory is that Greenland is indeed an archipelago, but until all the ice melts (and sadly it appears to be an “until” and not an “unless”) we won’t know for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/27 "2017-01-02T18:02:07Z")
I’m aware this is an old thread, but most rankings of area I see are always 1. Russia, 2. Canada, 3. USA, 4. China. Occasionally I have seen rankings that go off of land area only, which moves it to 1. Russia (Lots of Land), 2. China (9,328,245 sq. km), 3. USA (9,162,391 sq. km), 4. Canada (9,094,037 sq. km.). Interestingly the US is 3rd either way (Water + Land, or Land alone) so rankings that would have the U.S. 4th would be pretty weird/unusual. FWIW I think the geography norm is that “inland water” is counted in this, so I don’t believe Canada’s typical area inclusive of water counts large ice sheets far off the coast. All the lakes and then all the archipelago islands in the far north of Canada there’s probably a lot of “judgment calls” about what water, in terms of geographic norms, is inland vs not. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/28 "2017-01-02T18:21:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, Mercator definitely has its uses. For instance, it’s the projection used by Google Maps, and indeed is the _only_ flat projection that meets Google Maps’ needs. It just shouldn’t be the default, is all. > > Personally, I don’t know why more general-purpose maps don’t use the Goode-Holosine projection, or something similarly interrupted. Probably because people are conditioned to wanting to look at a non-interrupted projection. Move to a non-rectangular one first - something like a Mollweide. ETA: > **[List of map projections](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_map_projections#/media/File:Mollweide_projection_SW.jpg)** > > This is a summary of map projections that have articles of their own on Wikipedia or that are otherwise notable. Because there is no limit to the number of possible map projections, there can be no comprehensive list. > Plate carrée: special case having the equator as the standard parallel. > Johann Heinrich Louis Krüger ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/29 "2017-01-02T18:32:37Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I believe current theory is that Greenland is indeed an archipelago, but until all the ice melts (and sadly it appears to be an “until” and not an “unless”) we won’t know for sure. I heard this, too, but this topographic map of an ice-sheetless Greenland suggests that it would have large inland seas: > **[Greenland ice sheet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet#/media/File:Topographic_map_of_Greenland_bedrock.jpg)** > > The Greenland ice sheet is an ice sheet which forms the second largest body of ice in the world. It is an average of 1.67 km (1.0 mi) thick, and over 3 km (1.9 mi) thick at its maximum. It is almost 2,900 kilometres (1,800 mi) long in a north–south direction, with a maximum width of 1,100 kilometres (680 mi) at a latitude of 77°N, near its northern edge. The ice sheet covers 1,710,000 square kilometres (660,000 sq mi), around 80% of the surface of Greenland, or about 12% of the area of the Gre... Of course, a lot of that is elevation \< 50 m. With significant sea level rise, some of those might become shallow straits connecting to the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/30 "2017-01-02T18:45:03Z")
The rankings change significantly when territorial ocean water is included in area. The U.S. moves up in the rankings, and [France makes it into the Top Seven](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Territorial_waters_-_France.svg/800px-Territorial_waters_-_France.svg.png), I think, just behind Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/31 "2017-01-02T18:50:31Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Welcome to the Straight Dope. You just bumped a 14 year old thread to raise an issue no one mentioned when they discussed it back then. I assume you were attempting to make a point regarding the largest island, but Australia is for relatively good reasons generally considered a continent. You say that as though being a continent excludes it from being an island (or otherwise, why did you bring that up?) ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/32 "2017-01-02T19:13:20Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > You say that as though being a continent excludes it from being an island (or otherwise, why did you bring that up?) Well if you count continents as islands, then Australia is smaller than Eurasia, Africa, the Americas for sure. I’d have to look up Antarctica to see how much land is under that ice. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/33 "2017-01-02T20:37:06Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > I heard this, too, but this topographic map of an ice-sheetless Greenland suggests that it would have large inland seas: > > [Greenland ice sheet - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenland_ice_sheet#/media/File:Topographic_map_of_Greenland_bedrock.jpg) > > Of course, a lot of that is elevation \< 50 m. With significant sea level rise, some of those might become shallow straits connecting to the ocean. In the case of Greenland, [isostatic rebound](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-glacial_rebound) from the loss of the ice will counter most of the sea level rise. Well, except that Antarctica will also be melting and confounding the situation. Not that it matters that much – this is not going to be prime real estate any time soon, even if not submerged. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/34 "2017-01-02T20:38:24Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The Mercator isn’t a “bad map projection”. As [this site](http://brilliantmaps.com/xkcd/) says, ‘all map projections distort the surface in some fashion.’ > > All have their advantages and disadvantages. [cite omitted] Nice cite. And now I know the word loxodrome. What is the lat and long of [179 East Houston NYC](http://www.russanddaughters.com) and which way should I head? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/35 "2017-01-02T21:03:08Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > You say that as though being a continent excludes it from being an island (or otherwise, why did you bring that up?) > [@OldGuy](#): > > Well if you count continents as islands, then Australia is smaller than Eurasia, Africa, the Americas for sure. I’d have to look up Antarctica to see how much land is under that ice. Yeah. Every land mass on earth is an island. And “Antarctica” refers only to the land under the ice, not the ice. It’s almost 2x the size of Australia. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/36 "2017-01-02T21:34:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yeah. Every land mass on earth is an island. And “Antarctica” refers only to the land under the ice, not the ice. It’s almost 2x the size of Australia. If you are going to include the land under ice, you might as well include the land under water. Which means the largest island on Earth is … Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/37 "2017-01-02T23:29:17Z")
Some googling around finds that island and contingent are indeed mutually exclusive so I stand corrected. In terms of Australia I see the word can variously be applied to mainland Australia, Australia the country, and Australia the continent. And I see things get messy with some of the world’s other large landmasses. So screw it, I’m out of that side discussion 😕 Sent from my Mi-4c using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/38 "2017-01-02T23:30:18Z")
continent ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/39 "2017-01-03T08:15:25Z")
No country is an island, sufficient to itself… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423/40 "2017-01-03T13:06:38Z")
Other than Iceland, Malta, Sri Lanka, Singapore, and numerous Caribbean countries, of course. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/since-when-is-china-larger-than-canada-territory/146423.md?page=3)