# Sinful Places and Natural Disasters **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 17, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081 "2005-12-17T19:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/1 "2005-12-17T19:14:11Z")
What with the Gulf Coast getting wiped out by hurricanes and the nitwits screaming about how it was God’s wrath and all, and people claiming that Dover, PA is in big danger because they kicked ID out the classroom, I’ve been wondering just how **safe** it would be to live in places that are considered “sinful.” For the life of me, I can’t think of a disaster that’s hit Nevada, which with it’s gambling and prostitution, would be pretty high on God’s list of places to smite, if He were going after such places. I know that when the Johnstown Flood wiped out parts of PA, some of the _only_ places to survive were the brothels, and I’ve never heard of Amsterdam getting a “divine smackdown” so I’m wondering if it’s **ever** happened (outside the oft-cited Biblical examples of Sodom and Gomorrah). Anybody know? (I’m looking for _natural_ disasters, and not religious nutjobs deciding that they’ve been picked to do God’s work and killing people or blowing places up.) ---
**Author:** ![MaryEFoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MaryEFoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaryEFoo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/2 "2005-12-18T00:30:38Z")
I have another counter-example. When a volcano blasted a town on a Caribbean island (near Martinique??) early in the 1900’s, the only survivor was the guy in the lowest furthest-back least-ventilated cell in the jail. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/3 "2005-12-18T03:08:03Z")
They’re called _natural_ disasters, not _super-natural_, after all. Because they are natural. The Gulf Coast, Florida & the Caribbean islands get a lot of hurricanes because of the geography – that’s the natural place for hurricanes to hit. On the other hand, they seldom get the winter blizzards that we have up here in Minnesota. Given that ‘sin & immorality’ seem to be pretty common all over the world, it’s pretty easy to look at anyplace that has been hit by a natural disaster and blame it on the ‘sinfulness’ of the local people. Especially after the fact, which is always when they do this. P.S. To a Midwestern farm boy, just looking at the cropland in Nevada is enough to convince me that the ‘disaster’ has already hit there! ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/4 "2005-12-18T03:28:29Z")
> [@MaryEFoo](#): > > I have another counter-example. When a volcano blasted a town on a Caribbean island (near Martinique??) On the Martinique island itself. The town was St-Pierre. 20 000 residents. All died apart from the felon in solitary confinement. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/5 "2005-12-18T05:32:34Z")
Yes, counter-examples are easy to find. Perhaps the most famous is the Lisbon earthquake of November 1, 1755. For one thing, it happened on a Sunday morning, obviously at a time of day when a great many people were in church. Adding to the irony is the fact that Nov 1st is a holy day - All Saint’s Day. [http://www.drgeorgepc.com/Tsunami1755Lisbon.html](http://www.drgeorgepc.com/Tsunami1755Lisbon.html) This cite states: > [@](#): > > The destruction caused by the earthquake was beyond description. Lisbon’s great cathedrals, Basilica de Santa Maria, Sao Vincente de Fora, Sao Paulo, Santa Catarina, the Misericordia - all full of worshipers - collapsed, killing thousands. Lisbon’s whole quay and the marble-built Cais De Pedra along the Tagus disappeared into the river, burying with it hundreds of people who had sought refuge. The magnitude of the quake has been estimated between 8.6 and 9.0. The city suffered 3 major tremors in 2 minutes. A fire started shortly thereafter, doing even further damage and lasted 5 days. If that wasn’t bad enough, the city was also hit by a tsunami. Lisbon was essentially destroyed by the All Saint’s Day earthquake. Religious leaders actually saw this as (among other things) a “sign” of the Second Coming. The French philosopher **Voltaire** was somewhat more cynical: “Will you say: ‘This is result of eternal laws Directing the acts of a free and good God!’ … Did Lisbon, which is no more, have more vices Than London and Paris immersed in their pleasures? Lisbon is destroyed, and they dance in Paris!” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/6 "2005-12-18T06:09:15Z")
> [@](#): > > and I’ve never heard of Amsterdam getting a “divine smackdown” so I’m wondering if it’s ever happened Hasn’t the Netherlands been pretty much an ongoing natural disaster for its entire history? I mean, most of the country is below sea level, and all of those windmills are working nonstop getting the sea back out of it. Or at least, were: I presume they have more modern methods of water control now. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/7 "2005-12-18T19:10:18Z")
Yep, plenty of counter examples, so many that any thinking believer shoud discount the idea of divine retribution to cities. There is AFAIK only one incident that could fit Sin and Dissaster: [http://library.thinkquest.org/C003603/english/earthquakes/casestudies.shtml](http://library.thinkquest.org/C003603/english/earthquakes/casestudies.shtml) > [@](#): > > Port Royal, Jamaica (1692, June 7) > Port Royal, known as the Treasury of the West Indies and the **Wickedest City in the World** , was at the time **frequented by pirates, prostitutes, and privateers** like Henry Morgan, who stole from the Spanish fleet. On a hot, muggy morning, three earthquakes rocked this Caribbean island, moving two mountains nearly a mile from their original positions. The greatest damage occurred in the British colonial city of Port Royal because it was built on an unstable jut of land, and the city slid into the ocean when the shaking began. Within three minutes it lay beneath fifty feet of water. Almost 2,000 people (1/3 of the population) perished, while 1,800 houses were destroyed. A subsequent seismic sea wave then flooded streets and houses, killing hundreds more people. At the same time, the Swan, a frigate boat, was carried into the city on a large wave. Drowning citizens escaped death by clinging to its dangling ropes. A merchant named Lewis Galdy had been swallowed alive by a fissure that opened beneath his feet, but was shot out like a bottle cork by the force of the third earthquake. Countless more people were buried alive in the cracks, and their decomposing corpses created a noxious odor that permeated the island for months. Another 1,000 people died from disease and injuries after the disaster. The city was abandoned forever, but visitors could still see the higher-story homes covered by up to 40 feet of water for the next hundred years. Layers of silt submerged much of the town, which lay forgotten and intact for centuries before it was dug up in 1959. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/8 "2005-12-18T19:18:37Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > Yes, counter-examples are easy to find. > Perhaps the most famous is the Lisbon earthquake of November 1, 1755. For one thing, it happened on a Sunday morning, obviously at a time of day when a great many people were in church. Adding to the irony is the fact that Nov 1st is a holy day - All Saint’s Day. > > [LISBON EARTHQUAKE AND TSUNAMI OF 1755. DR. GEORGE PARARAS-CARAYANNIS](http://www.drgeorgepc.com/Tsunami1755Lisbon.html) > This cite states: > > The magnitude of the quake has been estimated between 8.6 and 9.0. The city suffered 3 major tremors in 2 minutes. A fire started shortly thereafter, doing even further damage and lasted 5 days. If that wasn’t bad enough, the city was also hit by a tsunami. Lisbon was essentially destroyed by the All Saint’s Day earthquake. > > \*\*Religious leaders actually saw this as (among other things) a “sign” of the Second Coming. \*\* > The French philosopher **Voltaire** was somewhat more cynical: > “Will you say: ‘This is result of eternal laws > Directing the acts of a free and good God!’ … > Did Lisbon, which is no more, have more vices > Than London and Paris immersed in their pleasures? > Lisbon is destroyed, and they dance in Paris!” So the Marquis do Pombal was Christ incarnate? 😃 We got the smackdown in 1964 and we didn’t do nothin’ to nobody, man. ---
**Author:** ![Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/9 "2005-12-18T20:13:44Z")
Jesus specifically repudiated the idea of natural disasters being associated with divine wrath. > [@](#): > > And he answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” Luke 13:2-5 ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/10 "2005-12-18T20:44:11Z")
There was a freak tornado that touched down in Salt Lake City a few years ago, and I believe one of the places destroyed was the oldest gay bar in the city. I had to hear about how that proved it was an act of divine retribution from a number of people. I believe it also destroyed some LDS church property, but of course that was just coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/11 "2005-12-18T20:53:46Z")
And if the sinless should be smitten in these acts of retribution, then surely they’re just **divine collateral damage**. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/12 "2005-12-18T21:21:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@Tuckerfan](#): > > > > and I’ve never heard of Amsterdam getting a “divine smackdown” so I’m wondering if it’s ever happened > > Hasn’t the Netherlands been pretty much an ongoing natural disaster for its entire history? Historically, there were certainly many major floods in the Netherlands. Furthermore, there were often those falling over themselves to blame these disasters on the perceived sinning of their contemporaries. Thus major flooding in 1631 coincided with a general campaign of severe - indeed deadly - persecution of homosexuals in the country and there were those who used the disaster as evidence that God was thereby endorsing the notion that Dutch society was indeed corrupt. As the flip side, you got an emphasis on good Protestant behaviour being linked to the staving off of the elements, even if it was just people assiduously repairing the dykes. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/13 "2005-12-18T21:26:10Z")
> [@bonzer](#): > > Thus major flooding in 1631 … 1. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/14 "2005-12-18T21:54:28Z")
I was searching for one story but found this one at Das Free Republik website about lightning striking a “gay” radio station. [http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/962258/posts?page=1](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/962258/posts?page=1) Here’s the article for which I was searching originally: In a March, 1966 interview, John Lennon proclaimed the Beatles were “more popular than Jesus”. This quote eventually reached the United states around the Summer of 1966 resulting in a wave of outrage particularly in the Bible Belt. People were burning Beatles’ albums that sort of thing. I guess the Lord wanted to display some outrage too: On August 13 (1966), KLUE, a radio station in Texas, organized another Beatles bonfire. (_That same night_, the station was struck by lightning, which damaged their equipment and knocked the station manager unconscious. Sometimes, justice really is poetic.) [http://www.newsoftheodd.com/article1012.html](http://www.newsoftheodd.com/article1012.html) ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/15 "2005-12-18T22:13:01Z")
As for Las Vegas, if an earthquake ever breeched the Hoover Dam, Vegas would suddenly find itself without electricity or a municipal water supply. The shit would hit the fan quite quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/16 "2005-12-18T22:55:13Z")
> [@bonzer](#): > > As the flip side, you got an emphasis on good Protestant behaviour being linked to the staving off of the elements, even if it was just people assiduously repairing the dykes. You mean, converting them to heterosexuality? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2005, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/17 "2005-12-18T23:17:25Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You mean, converting them to heterosexuality? Well, jam a finger into someone and you can argue them into _anything_. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/18 "2005-12-19T00:12:59Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > As for Las Vegas, if an earthquake ever breeched the Hoover Dam, Vegas would suddenly find itself without electricity or a municipal water supply. The shit would hit the fan quite quickly. I could be wrong now, but for the past couple decades all I’ve heard from locals in las Vegas is that the local power company, Nevada Power, supplies Las Vegas with most of its electricity from coal-fired plants, while most of Hoover Dam’s power goes to Los Angeles. Boulder City, the town founded by dam workers during the construction of the dam, apparently now does get most of its power from the dam, but I think Las Vegas and its contiguous cities like Henderson, North Las Vegas, etc. still get most of their power elsewhere. But I could be wrong. The water supply thing would be trouble, though. We’d have to extend the water-suckers out to the path of the Colorado River, wherever that ended up – would the river end up in its old course, or would Lake Mead’s existence have changed the course of the river? ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/19 "2005-12-19T00:51:19Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You mean, converting them to heterosexuality? [sub]You think I didn’t know I was leaving an open goal in mentioning dykes in that post?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Quotidian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/82dd89/32.png) [@Quotidian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quotidian)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081/20 "2005-12-19T00:52:55Z")
> [@chorpler](#): > > Boulder City, the town founded by dam workers during the construction of the dam, apparently now does get most of its power from the dam, but I think Las Vegas and its contiguous cities like Henderson, North Las Vegas, etc. still get most of their power elsewhere. Las Vegas is powered by small generators connected to the handles of slot machines. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinful-places-and-natural-disasters/336081.md?page=2)