# Sing a Song of Sixpence. Reply to T.S.D.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sing-a-song-of-sixpence-reply-to-t-s-d/200950
**Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
**Created:** [September 11, 2003, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sing-a-song-of-sixpence-reply-to-t-s-d/200950 "2003-09-11T11:38:10Z")
**Posts on this page:** 5
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Vincent\_Wadsworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vincent_Wadsworth)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2003, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sing-a-song-of-sixpence-reply-to-t-s-d/200950/1 "2003-09-11T11:38:10Z")
Having come from [racheal.cranetripod.com/pix/blackbird.html](http://racheal.cranetripod.com/pix/blackbird.html) were she shows her designs around nursery rhymes, the number 24 comes up again in a rhyme called Captain Duck. May be incidental, may be not!
A comment on the Straight Dope Staff report on ‘Sing a song of sixpence…’; S.D. say ‘‘This includes the “piracy” origin of “Sing a Song of Sixpence” – it is totally bogus, although quite amusing’’. If I have got his/her expression of context right, the evolution of ‘tales’ and ‘rhymes’ doesn’t devalue the wealth of such rhymes, and infact underlines their historic value. I come from the point of view that many ‘rhymes’ and ‘tales’ cultural/artistic values are as equal a study as the study of their origins: given example, there exist in many ‘rhymes’ and ‘tales’, a dialogue between nature/natural order and imposed cultural order, in this case blackbirds and Kings. That doesn’t make any evolution of ‘rhymes’ in any way ‘‘bogus’’ although I would say ‘‘amusing’’ but in the valuable sence. Oh while I’m valuing things, I loved the rest of the info on the Rhyme ‘Sing a Song of Sixpence’:this stuff Interests me; thank you.
Vincent.
---
### Author:  [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2003, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sing-a-song-of-sixpence-reply-to-t-s-d/200950/2 "2003-09-11T13:13:14Z")
Welcome to The Straight Dope Message Boards, **Vincent** , glad to have you with us. And it’s a very thought-provoking first post! We hope to see more from you!
When you start a thread, it’s helpful if you provide a link to the column that you’re commenting on… keeps us all on the same page, avoids redundant comments, etc. In this case, it’s [the origin of ‘Sing a Song of Sixpence’](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/msixpence.html) No biggie, you’ll know for next time.
I do think there’s a difference between an analysis (noting that fairy tales and nursery rhymes are often about nature/culture, say) and a pseudo-history (claiming a bogus historical origin for a tale or rhyme.) The one is legit analysis, the other is phony history.
---
### Author:  [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2003, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sing-a-song-of-sixpence-reply-to-t-s-d/200950/3 "2003-09-11T13:27:27Z")
Are you trying to say that you believe the rhyme _does_ have its origins in piracy, Vincent? If so, you are mistaken. This myth came from a joke website on the [Snopes.com](http://Snopes.com) Urban Legends Reference Pages ( [http://www.snopes.com/lost/sixpence.htm](http://www.snopes.com/lost/sixpence.htm) ), dated 1999. I don’t think you can really defend this as “the evolution of ‘tales’ and ‘rhymes’”.
I do wish Snopes would put the word out more widely about their “TRoLL” pages, though.
---
### Author:  [@Vincent\_Wadsworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vincent_Wadsworth)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sing-a-song-of-sixpence-reply-to-t-s-d/200950/4 "2003-09-12T17:49:46Z")
No. I think somthing got lost in the translation. I took ‘piracy’ to be simply a discriptive term not a literal one: I hadn’t seen the ‘[snopes.com](http://snopes.com)’ site and was going off the info I had found on this site. I’m not sure whether the perjoritive terms were aimed at ‘[snopes.com](http://snopes.com)’ or the idea of value and development of ‘rhymes’.
My position is still that perjoritive terms are not appropiate to ‘rhymes’ simply because they have changed/evolved through use; and that changes indicate a new or adapted use. E.G., ‘fairytales’ have and origin as ‘tavern/pub’ tales with political and adult themes (and may well existed as another form of oral history before that). Because they’re changed/evolved into ‘fairytales’, doesn’t negate study of their pedagogic content: cautionary tales to children about ‘good’ and ‘bad’ behaviour and ‘conquence’; some very disturbing content compared to the censored versions we have at present. Further, because ‘Sing a song of sixpence’ has changed is ‘bad boys’ to ‘black birds’ doesn’t, just the focus of who the rhyme is aimed. Any more on the number 24 in rhymes, I dont want to get stuck in one debate. Thanks
---
### Author:  [@Vincent\_Wadsworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vincent_Wadsworth)
#### Post date: [September 12, 2003, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sing-a-song-of-sixpence-reply-to-t-s-d/200950/5 "2003-09-12T17:54:30Z")
Apoligies for the nonsensical sintax of ‘bad boys’ an ‘blackbirds’, I posted with checking through. I hope you can muddle through the meaning. No biggy eh!