# Sinless Life -- How Hard Would It Be to Live? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823 "2003-06-05T14:07:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![richardc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@richardc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/richardc)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/1 "2003-06-05T14:07:08Z")
Hi, I’m not sure if this topic will spark much discussion, but we shall see. Jesus is said to have lived a sinless life. He did not commit even one venial sin. Now, all wrongdoing is a sin. That means that even the slightest, tiniest, wrong act is a sin. What I want to know is how hard would it really be to live a sinless life, and what would such a person be like (please don’t answer Jesus)? To me, it seems like an unimaginably strict existence and a virtually impossible feat to accomplish. Is this sinless life business just hogwash? What do you guys think? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/2 "2003-06-05T14:13:20Z")
Live a sinless life? I’m not sure I’d consider that living. Its more like waiting to die, even though it would be a sin to hope you die soon. Can you imagine though, if you spent 80 years trying to _live_ the sinless life, and at the very end stubbed your toe, felt rath, then fell to your death! ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/3 "2003-06-05T14:15:26Z")
It’s easy to live a sinless life. Just become an atheist. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/4 "2003-06-05T14:17:11Z")
You are making the mistaken assumption that we are expected to lead sinless lives. If God wanted a world full of sinless beings, he would have created a world full of angels. Instead, he created a world of human beings; mortal, fallible, and temptable human beings. As such, God is aware that He created flawed beings and takes that into account. Suppose for a minute that you were a computer programmer and wrote a simple program that balances your checkbook. Would you then be angry at it when you find that it will not also diagnose the clunking noise in your car’s motor? No, of course not, because that’s not what it was designed to do. The same with us. We were not designed to be perfect. We have our flaws. Our job is not to lead perfect lives, but to be the best that we can be. Self-perfection - being the best that you can be, is what God is looking for in us. There is an old Jewish saying that (adapted to myself) goes like this: When I arrive before the heavenly court (after many, many years), God will not ask me why I was not as righteous as Moses, as pious as Aaron or any othe religious figure. He will ask me if I was as good as Zev Steinhardt could have been. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Equal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Equal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equal)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/5 "2003-06-05T14:17:19Z")
Jesus did it because He was God. The Bible says NO human can ever do it. So i don’t try very hard. Of course, the more you know jesus, the less you Want to sin. Atheists sin; they just don’t know or care. Doesn’t absolve em. ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/6 "2003-06-05T14:29:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Equal \* > \*\*Jesus did it because He was God. > The Bible says NO human can ever do it. > So i don’t try very hard. > Of course, the more you know jesus, the less you Want to sin. > Atheists sin; they just don’t know or care. > Doesn’t absolve em. \*\* Because there is nothing to absolve. There was a recent thread about the nature of sin. Interestingly, is violence a sin? I need a definitive answer on this (from a Christian or Muslim) before I get to my point. I will qualify this by saying - not in self-defence. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/7 "2003-06-05T14:39:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Equal \* > \*\*] > Atheists sin; they just don’t know or care. > \*\* No they don’t, you just believe they do… ---
**Author:** ![richardc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@richardc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/richardc)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/8 "2003-06-05T14:43:56Z")
Zev, Thanks for the post. I apologize. I should have said that I was talking about sin and sinners from a Christian perspective, not a Jewish one. All that you say is probably correct (I wouldnt’ know) from a Jewish perspective, but not from a Christian perspective. > [@](#): > > You are making the mistaken assumption that we are expected to lead sinless lives. I’m not sure where I made that assumption, and I doubt that I would have because I was talking about Christians, and it is impossible for them to lead sinless lives since they are fallen. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/9 "2003-06-05T14:46:34Z")
Well, even from the Christian POV, I don’t believe God expects you to be sinless. After all, if people lived sinless lives, then what was the point of Jesus dying for people’s sins? Why a need for someone to die for the world’s sins if people were not expected to do so? Would you build a bridge over a river that no one ever wanted to cross? Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/10 "2003-06-05T15:04:48Z")
Yeah. The baby Jesus would be out of work! Sin is in the eye of the beholder anyway. What you consider sinful might not be what I consider sinful. Not that I believe in sin anyway. I believe in being a good person. Sin is a human construct based on a god and an arbitrary set of rules. Those rules may or may not fit with your idea of living a good life. ---
**Author:** ![richardc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@richardc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/richardc)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/11 "2003-06-05T15:12:38Z")
Let me start over. 🙂 I didn’t think this through well enough. I didn’t mean to imply, if I did, that God expects people to live a sinless life. That would be impossible. Instead of asking whether _people_ can lead sinless lives, or how hard it would be, let me ask this instead. _Jesus_ supposedly lived a sinless life. But how realistic is that? It seems to me impossible for one to live here on earth and not commit even the slightest venial sin. And it also seems to me that sinless life would be _impossibly_ strict. One couldn’t tell even the slighest lie or fudge the tiniest fact or hurt someone even in the slightest way. Would it even be possible to lead a sinless life? What kind of maneuvering would have to be done to not commit a single venial sin? Also, I asked earlier whether it would be hard. Never mind that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![richardc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@richardc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/richardc)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/12 "2003-06-05T15:17:56Z")
Actually, I think the first post made sense, except the “how hard would it be” _when applied to Jesus_. I apologize. Zev, God doesn’t expect one to be sinless, because that would be impossible. I’m not sure where I made the assumption that God expects us to lead sinless lives. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/13 "2003-06-05T15:18:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by richardc \* > \*\*_Jesus_ supposedly lived a sinless life. But how realistic is that? \*\* Well, if you hold the position that Jesus was part of the Trinity and therefore, a part (or aspect, or however it should be termed) of God, then it probably wasn’t very difficult at all. > [@](#): > > \*\* > It seems to me impossible for one to live here on earth and not commit even the slightest venial sin. And it also seems to me that sinless life would be _impossibly_ strict. \*\* Yes, but we’re not expected to be sinless. > [@](#): > > \*\* > One couldn’t tell even the slighest lie or fudge the tiniest fact or hurt someone even in the slightest way. Would it even be possible to lead a sinless life? What kind of maneuvering would have to be done to not commit a single venial sin? > \*\* Well, first of all, you are making the assumption that all lying is a sin. That is not the case. If Arnold the Assassian comes up to you asking where your buddy Ralph is, lying to him about Ralph’s location would not be a sin – you’d be saving Ralph’s life! In any event, since we’re not expected to lead a sinless life, I’m not sure what the point of your question is. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![UnwrittenNocturne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/6de8d8/32.png) [@UnwrittenNocturne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwrittenNocturne)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/14 "2003-06-05T15:20:36Z")
Recipe for a ‘sinless’ life: First remove your sexual organs - including the brain, since that definitely counts as one. reason: even thinking sex without marraige (and possibly pro-creation) is a sin. NB: I think Jack Chick has already removed his brain. Second: remove the possibility of any pleasurable physicla sensation. eg: tastebuds etc. Third: die. The reward of religion is, after all, death. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/15 "2003-06-05T15:22:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UnwrittenNocturne \* > \*\*Recipe for a ‘sinless’ life: > > First remove your sexual organs - \*\* Sorry. Castration is a sin… 🙂 Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![richardc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@richardc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/richardc)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/16 "2003-06-05T15:38:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, if you hold the position that Jesus was part of the Trinity and therefore, a part (or aspect, or however it should be termed) of God, then it probably wasn’t very difficult at all. If it were possible, yes, it wouldn’t be hard for Him. I suppose that I am asking whether it is even possible. I guess we cannot really know that. But it seems (to me at least) impossble. Impossibly strict. > [@](#): > > Yes, but we’re not expected to be sinless. Right. > [@](#): > > Well, first of all, you are making the assumption that all lying is a sin. That is not the case. If Arnold the Assassian comes up to you asking where your buddy Ralph is, lying to him about Ralph’s location would not be a sin – you’d be saving Ralph’s life! It is still telling an untruth. I think that it is still a sin, but a very slight one, considering the situation. > [@](#): > > In any event, since we’re not expected to lead a sinless life, I’m not sure what the point of your question is. I know that we are not expected to live sinless lives. I’m not sure why you keep saying this. I’m confused. Thanks for the posts. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/17 "2003-06-05T15:40:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\*Well, even from the Christian POV, I don’t believe God expects you to be sinless. After all, if people lived sinless lives, then what was the point of Jesus dying for people’s sins? Why a need for someone to die for the world’s sins if people were not expected to do so? Would you build a bridge over a river that no one ever wanted to cross? > > Zev Steinhardt \*\* As with many issues though, there is a thin line to tread; Christian doctrine is definitely _against_ the idea that _it is OK to sin because it is all paid for in advace_, but it also says you can’t avoid it, ho hum. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/18 "2003-06-05T15:41:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*As with many issues though, there is a thin line to tread; Christian doctrine is definitely _against_ the idea that _it is OK to sin because it is all paid for in advace_, but it also says you can’t avoid it, ho hum. \*\* Of course. But you also can’t say that Christianity expects people to live completely sinless lives either. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/19 "2003-06-05T15:45:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by richardc \* > \*\* > It is still telling an untruth. I think that it is still a sin, but a very slight one, considering the situation. > \*\* Is that the normative Christian position, that forbidden acts are absolutely and always forbidden in every circumstance and that committing that act is always wrong (to one degree or another) regardless of the circumstances? That is not the normative Jewish position. In Judaism, for example, saving a life overrides almost every commandment. As such, in the hypothetical I described above, not only would one be allowed to lie to Arnold the Assassian, one would be required to. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinless-life-how-hard-would-it-be-to-live/179823/20 "2003-06-05T15:57:05Z")
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