# Sinn Fein Spies in Government? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2002, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinn-fein-spies-in-government/131164 "2002-10-07T08:20:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinn-fein-spies-in-government/131164/81 "2002-10-10T16:52:10Z")
Well surprise suprise [NI executive ‘to be suspended’](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/2315147.stm) ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinn-fein-spies-in-government/131164/82 "2002-10-10T18:09:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manwithaplan \* > \*\*… the PUP’s mates, the UVF, have been quiet enough. \*\* The UVF have been heavily involved in the Short Strand siege. More later. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2002, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinn-fein-spies-in-government/131164/83 "2002-10-10T20:50:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manwithaplan \* > \*\*Sinn Fein have a greater burden of responsibility because they are in Government etc. There is little option but to tackle loyalist activity primarily through the forces of law and order because there is little central control or political representation. \*\* And as you well know this is precisely the reason for the upsurge in loyalist violence - loyalists themselves have little to lose from it, but if they can provoke the IRA into breaking their ceasefire, republicans will lose a _lot_. The constant threat to kick Sinn Féin out of Government is, therefore, like waving a red flag at a bull - it just encourages more loyalist violence. And the forces of law and order don’t seem to be addressing this aspect of the problem at all. > [@](#): > > A grand gesture by republicans puts it up to those unionists who just ‘don’t want Taigs about the place’ and also makes it much more difficult for the security forces to shirk their responsibility to take on loyalism. The problem with this argument is we heard it all before, back when the IRA were refusing to decommission any weapons. We were told that to do so would put pressure on the loyalist paramilitaries to make a similar gesture. Things didn’t quite work out that way did they - why should we expect them to this time? > [@](#): > > I’m all for a united Ireland but preferably not one governed by Sinn Fein. Honestly they couldn’t be any worse than the muppets running the 26 counties at the moment, could they … ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinn-fein-spies-in-government/131164/84 "2002-10-11T09:30:57Z")
**Ruadh** , I couldn’t agree more about the failure of the security forces to adequately tackle loyalist violence and I also agree about the motives behind loyalist provocation (at least in part - quite a lot of it is just random thuggery). The lie of loyalist activity being exclusively ‘reactive’ has long been exposed. I fail to see how that changes anything though. It doesn’t reduce SF’s burden of responsibility - it merely points to the problem of loyalism standing aloof from the process. The persistent unionist bleating is bad enough without SF giving them something to bleat about. It’s hard to play the ‘but what about the loyalists’ card with the UUP and DUP because they can easily respond that they condemn loyalist violence just as much as republican violence and that they would be making the same calls for exclusion if loyalist parties were in the executive. On the policing issue, it’s hard to see the organisational culture of the PSNI being radically altered without nationalist engagement with policing structures. On the ‘grand gesture’, I didn’t suggest that it would bring about loyalist decommissioning, just that it would make life much more difficult for rejectionists (I sound like Martin McGuinness!) and more ‘traditional’ members of the PSNI. It would focus the two Governments on putting pressure on unionists for a change. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinn-fein-spies-in-government/131164/85 "2002-10-11T09:33:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*Honestly they couldn’t be any worse than the muppets running the 26 counties at the moment, could they … \*\* I don’t fancy seeing the renationalisation of key industries. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinn-fein-spies-in-government/131164/86 "2002-10-11T09:49:31Z")
t’would be better than Harney selling off everything. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2002, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinn-fein-spies-in-government/131164/87 "2002-10-11T09:58:01Z")
Also, many of FF’s problems - apart from the cronyism and corruption - stem from skeletons in the closet. I don’t fancy meeting the skeletons in SF’s closet… ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2002, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinn-fein-spies-in-government/131164/88 "2002-10-12T07:49:21Z")
Well we already know about the skeletons in SF’s closet. Two of their five TDs, as well as at least three of their candidates who came close in the last election, were in prison. If there was anything worse on them Fianna Fáil would have made _sure_ we found out about it six months ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sinn-fein-spies-in-government/131164.md?page=4)