# Sins and Jesus **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076 "2013-10-01T09:18:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/41 "2013-10-09T12:21:31Z")
[quote=“lekatt, post:39, topic:670076”] If you want to understand the importance of Jesus and His life it is best to read His teachings and apply them to your life. Then you will know why He died or was killed and the significance it left to the world. It was not about sin. It was all about Love.[/QUOTE A lot that is attributed to Jesus is contradictory, Some of his prophesies did not happen, Many things written about Him are not true, just written by other humans like the build up of Elvis after he died. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/42 "2013-10-09T12:35:38Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > A lot that is attributed to Jesus is contradictory, Some of his prophesies did not happen, Many things written about Him are not true, just written by other humans like the build up of Elvis after he died. Now, I’m all for freedom of speech and the right to criticize(and even insult) religious entities, but if you’re going to start in on The King…! ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/43 "2013-10-09T12:57:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > but if you’re going to start in on The King…! Well Elvis was all about love too, only his was a hunka hunka burnin Love. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/44 "2013-10-09T13:16:28Z")
[quote=“monavis, post:41, topic:670076”] [quote=“lekatt, post:39, topic:670076”] If you want to understand the importance of Jesus and His life it is best to read His teachings and apply them to your life. Then you will know why He died or was killed and the significance it left to the world. It was not about sin. It was all about Love. [/QUOTE A lot that is attributed to Jesus is contradictory, Some of his prophesies did not happen, Many things written about Him are not true, just written by other humans like the build up of Elvis after he died.[/QUOTE] You’re right, of course. History is flawed and human memory is not perfect, but the essence of His teachings is Love. Love one another, the core teaching. That is unmistakable. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you follow that teaching you will see very quickly what is right and what is wrong. In life you are called upon everyday to choose between right and wrong. Love is the right way. People don’t know that until they try it. If you are waiting for an invitation or waiting for the conditions and circumstances to be perfect you will wait forever. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/45 "2013-10-09T22:10:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yeah, I get that kind of prejudice sometimes when I dare ask religious questions in this forum, but most posters don’t make such assumptions thankfully. LOL. Didn’t know agnosticism had martyrs. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/46 "2013-10-09T22:49:16Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Care to enlighten me on my ‘ignorance’ or are you just here to puff your feathers? > > **ruben4ruben** has provided nothing of value to this thread - and he’s actually provided more than you - so, yeah - I don’t think ‘we’ would miss either of you based on the participation in this thread. You post like an adolescent who’s attempting to ruffle someones “feathers.” " I don’t think …" We’re in agreement there. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/47 "2013-10-09T22:59:25Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > If you want to understand the importance of Jesus and His life it is best to read His teachings and apply them to your life. Then you will know why He died or was killed and the significance it left to the world. It was not about sin. It was all about Love. It was entirely because of sin that Christ had to die - the Sacrificial Lamb without blemish was needed for the atonement of sin. Love was the reason God allowed his only begotten Son to suffer crucifixion. ---
**Author:** ![Conservian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@Conservian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservian)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/48 "2013-10-09T23:05:41Z")
[quote=“monavis, post:41, topic:670076”] [quote=“lekatt, post:39, topic:670076”] If you want to understand the importance of Jesus and His life it is best to read His teachings and apply them to your life. Then you will know why He died or was killed and the significance it left to the world. It was not about sin. It was all about Love. [/QUOTE A lot that is attributed to Jesus is contradictory, Some of his prophesies did not happen, Many things written about Him are not true, just written by other humans like the build up of Elvis after he died.[/QUOTE] Examples? References? I’m thinking ‘unfounded opinion.’ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/49 "2013-10-09T23:51:50Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > You post like an adolescent who’s attempting to ruffle someones “feathers.” > > " I don’t think …" > We’re in agreement there. You can’t insult other posters in this forum, **Conservian** , regardless of what you might think of atheists asking these kinds of questions. Dismissing the entire topic is also frowned upon. This is an official warning: don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/50 "2013-10-10T00:34:29Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > It was entirely because of sin that Christ had to die - the Sacrificial Lamb without blemish was needed for the atonement of sin. > > Love was the reason God allowed his only begotten Son to suffer crucifixion. I really dislike doing this but sometimes the truth has to come out. If Jesus was the sacrificial lamb as you say then to whom was he sacrificed? Was it God? If so then why would God accept the killing of His own son when He could have just forgiven us without the blood sacrifice. Makes God sound very cruel and not the God I know. I would not worship this kind of God. Nor would I fear him. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/51 "2013-10-10T12:29:41Z")
[quote=“lekatt, post:44, topic:670076”] > [@monavis](#): > > You’re right, of course. History is flawed and human memory is not perfect, but the essence of His teachings is Love. Love one another, the core teaching. That is unmistakable. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you follow that teaching you will see very quickly what is right and what is wrong. > > In life you are called upon everyday to choose between right and wrong. Love is the right way. People don’t know that until they try it. If you are waiting for an invitation or waiting for the conditions and circumstances to be perfect you will wait forever. Yes, The writers attribute the sayings to Jesus , but there are many things he was to have said that one wonders why he would have said them, such as, " I came to bring a sword not peace" ,He surely didn’t speak to have much love for the Pharisees.! ---
**Author:** ![newinitiation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/278dde/32.png) [@newinitiation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newinitiation)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/52 "2013-10-10T12:39:46Z")
From FIGU’s perspective it is stated that 13.We reject religious-cultlike false teaching about sin and absolution because an integral part of evolution is that human beings do have faults. Hence, each person must continuously learn throughout his or her life. We learn through our mistakes, however, and the mistakes must be recognized and eliminated, thus generate advancement. It is therefore erroneous to believe that mistakes (sins) committed must be assuaged through some punishment (absolution), whether it is in this or some other life (= judgment of God/Karma, etc.). (Transgressions against the law are not simple errors, but are punishable actions according to human laws.) [http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy\_Meier/FIGU](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU) So the concept of sin is ridiculous as there exists no heaven or hell to go to after death. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/53 "2013-10-10T12:40:48Z")
> [@Conservian](#): > > It was entirely because of sin that Christ had to die - the Sacrificial Lamb without blemish was needed for the atonement of sin. > > Love was the reason God allowed his only begotten Son to suffer crucifixion. This is contradiction to a loving Father, who had the power to create people with out flaws, then because they had flaws condemn them and their offspring to pain and suffering, and death. Seems very unnecessary and illogical. A human father would be in jail for child abuse! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/54 "2013-10-10T13:08:08Z")
> [@newinitiation](#): > > From FIGU’s perspective it is stated that > > 13.We reject religious-cultlike false teaching about sin and absolution because an integral part of evolution is that human beings do have faults. Hence, each person must continuously learn throughout his or her life. We learn through our mistakes, however, and the mistakes must be recognized and eliminated, thus generate advancement. It is therefore erroneous to believe that mistakes (sins) committed must be assuaged through some punishment (absolution), whether it is in this or some other life (= judgment of God/Karma, etc.). (Transgressions against the law are not simple errors, but are punishable actions according to human laws.) > > [The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki - FIGU](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU) > So the concept of sin is ridiculous as there exists no heaven or hell to go to after death. Since your insane source claims that there was no Jesus, it has nothing to do with this thread, does it? ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/55 "2013-10-10T13:48:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Since your insane source claims that there was no Jesus, it has nothing to do with this thread, does it? For the un-initiatd (I was not aware of who he was) - [QUOTE=[The Future Of Mankind - A Billy Meier Wiki - FIGU](http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/FIGU)] In the 1970s, Billy Meier began working with other people interested in learning about his remarkable contact experiences with people from the Plejares. The knowledge he had gleaned from these contacts was written down and made available for public scrutiny. Some members of the group even witnessed the incredible phenomena themselves. Together they decided to publicise the information and formed a group they call FIGU, a German acronym that stands for Free Community of Interests for the Border and Spiritual Sciences and Ufological Studies. In addition to publishing and distributing the documented experiences, facts and evidences of Billy’s contacts, FIGU addresses many vital, worldwide issues on a daily basis. These include the crusade against overpopulation, the fight against the abuse of women and children, the protection of animals, human rights, and the struggle to save Planet Earth and its plants, animals and human life [/QUOTE] So - his theories/concepts are certainly off topic for this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/56 "2013-10-10T13:49:52Z")
> [@JerrySTL](#): > > Especially the Original Sin. All humans have it due to Adam and Eve getting kicked out of Eden. Silly really as there was no Adam nor Eve nor Eden. Aren’t we all (theoretically) _still_ born with Original Sin? Did Jesus die, er, wrong somehow, so we didn’t get off the hook? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/57 "2013-10-10T14:16:04Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Aren’t we all (theoretically) _still_ born with Original Sin? Did Jesus die, er, wrong somehow, so we didn’t get off the hook? [Good question.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=703640) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/58 "2013-10-10T14:18:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [Good question.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=703640) I don’t think that thread is relevant. I don’t especially care what original sin _is_. I just wanna know why Jesus didn’t (theoretically) get us off the hook for it. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/59 "2013-10-10T15:09:28Z")
[quote=“monavis, post:51, topic:670076”] > [@lekatt](#): > > Yes, > > The writers attribute the sayings to Jesus , but there are many things he was to have said that one wonders why he would have said them, such as, " I came to bring a sword not peace" ,He surely didn’t speak to have much love for the Pharisees.! We don’t really know what Jesus said in total, I am sure He said much more than was attributed to Him in the Bible. We have the same problem with Paul. In the Love Chapter Paul writes some of the most beautiful words on love anywhere and then later on we find him writing about the dangers of hell in a most fearsome way. Some scholars don’t think he wrote all the letters attributed to him. I don’t believe all the writings attributed to Jesus were actually what He said. But I believe His intentions are clear. Love one another, forgive your enemies, don’t judge others, are clear to me. When I had a NDE these values were made very clear. It changed my life so much it took me over three years to come to terms with the information. I am sure Jesus was a teacher of love. Over the years interpretations change everything. ---
**Author:** ![jsutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e8cbc/32.png) [@jsutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsutter)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076/60 "2013-10-10T17:52:36Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I really dislike doing this but sometimes the truth has to come out. If Jesus was the sacrificial lamb as you say then to whom was he sacrificed? Was it God? If so then why would God accept the killing of His own son when He could have just forgiven us without the blood sacrifice. Makes God sound very cruel and not the God I know. I would not worship this kind of God. Nor would I fear him. Again on the same page. Aloha [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sins-and-jesus/670076.md?page=4)