# Sir Ian McKellen has performed the impossible.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 23, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112 "2003-05-23T21:03:39Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/1 "2003-05-23T21:03:39Z")
He got my husband to like Shakespeare.
Since I knew Mr. Pug loved Ian McKellen as Gandalf, I thought I’d go out on a limb and rent _Richard III_, a favorite play of mine, starring Ian McKellen. Mr. Pug has always detested Shakespeare as unintelligible, irrelevant artsy-fartsy stuff.
Wow, that was one heck of a film. The play had been abridged to shorten it up a bit, but it was still brilliant. Sir Ian did a slyly malicious, charming, completely sociopathic Richard. This film set the action in 1930’s England, and portrayed Richard as a sort of fascist member of the royal family. Other excellent performances included Nigel Bruce as Clarence, Jim Broadbent as Buckingham, and Maggie Smith as the Duchess of York. Very, very good.
Then, last night, we watched a 1978 British made-for-television movie of _Macbeth_, again starring Sir Ian. Wow, he sure looked different at age 39! In a company of scintillating Royal Shakespeare Company actors, his was the most riveting performance, though it was closely rivalled by Judy Dench’s role as Lady Macbeth.
Mr. Pug loved both movies, and has ceased to ridicule me when I drag out my huge Shakespeare tome for a “light read”. However, he hasn’t gone so far as to try reading the plays himself yet.
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### Author:  [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/2 "2003-05-23T21:08:39Z")
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> irrelevant artsy-fartsy stuff.
_Boggle_
Now try him on Branagh’s Henry V.
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### Author:  [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/3 "2003-05-23T21:15:31Z")
Richard III was good, but when it was over I wished I’d rented Richard I and Richard II, you know?
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/4 "2003-05-23T21:28:21Z")
I still remember that _Richard III_. It was one of the first Shakespeare movies I saw (certainly among the first I saw in a theatre), and I still think Sir Ian’s was one of the best performances I’ve seen on film. Glad your husband liked it.
I’m _dying_ to see that version of Macbeth. Is it readily available? I’m a huge fan of both leads.
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### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/5 "2003-05-23T21:50:04Z")
I saw a PBS all day special one time showing eight different dircetors doing _MacBeth:_ Orson Welles, that really cool and gory British guy, etc. etc. It was strange how one play could be given such completely different treatments as to be unrecognizable.
Try the hubby on Kurosawa’s _Ran_ next (Japanese King Lear, dont’cha know).
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### Author:  [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/6 "2003-05-23T21:53:25Z")
**Marley23** , we rented it from [Video Library](http://www.vlibrary.com/vlibrary/), a terrific online rental source for obscure, “irrelevant, artsy-fartsy” movies. Also foreign films, classics, documentaries, operas, etc. We’ll be mailing this copy back to them in a couple of days, so should you join up, it will be available soon. If you ever watched the Royal Shakespeare Company’s production of _Nicholas Nickleby_, you will recognize several superb actors therefrom in _Macbeth_, most notably, John Woodbine (Ralph Nickleby) as Banquo.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/7 "2003-05-23T22:01:50Z")
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> \*Originally posted by pravnik \*
> \*\*Try the hubby on Kurosawa’s _Ran_ next (Japanese King Lear, dont’cha know). \*\*
Or _Throne of Blood_ (MacBeth)
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### Author:  [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/8 "2003-05-23T22:09:34Z")
I just saw Richard III (April 17) onstage with William Hurt in the title role. He was brilliant, as expected, the director made some…odd choices…but most of the cast did extremely weel. The women were also brilliant, with one exception.
Very enjoyable evening.
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### Author:  [@Tansu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tansu)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/9 "2003-05-23T22:14:57Z")
I saw Sir Ian as Richard III onstage about 10 years ago. He was extremely good.
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### Author:  [@Hodge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hodge)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/10 "2003-05-23T22:38:00Z")
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> \*Originally posted by pravnik \*
> that really cool and gory British guy
We might be thinking of different movies as there’s so many different adaptations but the _really_ gory version of _Macbeth_ was done by Roman Polanski, that Polish guy. This was post-Manson murders and I think he had a few issues to work out.
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### Author:  [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/11 "2003-05-23T23:20:48Z")
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> \*Originally posted by qts \*
> \*\*Now try him on Branagh’s Henry V. \*\*
I second this. **drools**
BTW, I also highly recommend the production of _Macbeth_ the OP mentions – it’s absolutely brilliant. It’s kinda hard to find, although [Poor Yorick](http://www.bardcentral.com) (great store, btw) has it.
(Note: In the McKellen Richard III, Clarence was played by Nigel Hawthorne, not Nigel Bruce. Though I agree he was wonderful.)
Mmmmm…Shakespeare…
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### Author:  [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/12 "2003-05-23T23:27:10Z")
Great, now I have a mental image of Dr. Watson being drowned in a butt of malmsey.
“Oh, I say - it’s a clear case of murder, Holmes!”
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2003, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/13 "2003-05-23T23:52:20Z")
As much as I love Shakespeare and Sir Ian, I didn’t care for his Richard III. He did a good job in the title role, naturally, but the movie as a whole just didn’t gel for me. Especially the battle scenes, where I couldn’t escape the feeling that WWII was being waged with precisely one tank and one airplane.
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### Author:  [@Banger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banger)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/14 "2003-05-24T02:42:05Z")
The first McKellen role I ever saw was his Chauvelin in the 1982 TV movie [The Scarlet Pimpernel](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0084637), also featuring the incredibly hot Jane Seymour and convincingly foppish Anthony Andrews (who seemed to be in EVERY TV movie during the late 70s/early 80s; I bought used paperback copies of _Ivanhoe_ and _Brideshead Revisited_ printed in the early 80s, and oddly enough, both have Andrews on the cover!) as the title character. McKellen is great in the role of villain. It’s a pretty entertaining film, which is good, because my older sister was so enamored with it that the copy she videotaped back in '82 nearly wore out the VCR she played it so much 😛
I think it’s available on DVD, if you can find it. Unfortunately for you, the DVD version won’t include all the 1982 TV commercials and a rather embarrassing home movie of a 7-year old **Banger** doing a jig and cracking his cousins’ heads like coconuts a la Moe Howard 😃
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### Author:  [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/15 "2003-05-24T02:48:23Z")
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> Mr. Pug has always detested Shakespeare as unintelligible
Well, a lot of it approaches unintelligible, to be honest. English has changed a lot in 400+ years, and Shakespeare was using a very stylized form of it. Expecting people to enjoy an evening of untranslated, annotation-free Shakespeare is expecting quite a lot.
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### Author:  [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2003, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/16 "2003-05-24T02:56:36Z")
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> \*Originally posted by Miller \*
> \*\*Especially the battle scenes, where I couldn’t escape the feeling that WWII was being waged with precisely one tank and one airplane. \*\*
Perhaps, but the battle scenes in Richard III have always felt sorta anticlimactic to me, anyway. And I can’t help but love the way they worked “My kingdom for a horse!” into the modern setting. 😉
**hazel-rah** – Shakespeare may have written in archaic and stylized English, but that doesn’t make him unintelligible; it just takes more work to appreciate him. And with the right actors it’s not even _that_ unintelligible… 😉
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/17 "2003-05-24T03:06:40Z")
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> Well, a lot of it approaches unintelligible, to be honest. English has changed a lot in 400+ years, and Shakespeare was using a very stylized form of it. Expecting people to enjoy an evening of untranslated, annotation-free Shakespeare is expecting quite a lot.
Oh, hardly. Reading it un-annotated from a book can be a pain, but any half way competent actor can communicate physically what isn’t obvious from the dry text. Hell, **pugluvr** ’s husband got hooked watching _Richard III_, which is arguably Shakespeare’s most dense and convoluted work. I’ve read it twice and seen it performed at least a half dozen times, and I still wouldn’t trust myself to summarize the plot. Doesn’t stop me from going all goosebumpy whenever I hear “Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this son of York.” Even if I didn’t get the double meaning of “son” until the third time I heard it.
Shakespeare is still amazingly accesible. English hasn’t changed that much since the Elizabethans (it’s still considered modern English, as opposed to middle or old English), and Bill was writing to the illiterate commoner as much as the cultured knobs. Do you know that there’s been a new film or TV adaptation of a Shakespearian play made every single year since 1936? (Excepting only 1941, 1946, and, bizarrely, 1977) They don’t just make them starring crusty old British stage actors (sorry, Sir Ian, no offence meant), they make them starring Mel Gibson and Leonardo DiCaprio. They put Keanu Reeves in one of them, f’rchrissake! This sort of perpetual popularity and star casting isn’t being maintained by the intelligentsia. You don’t see movies made out of the works of Milton or Kit Marlowe, because those guys, brilliant as they were, simply don’t have the common appeal of Shakespeare. He has real, enduring, _popular_ appeal.
**Katisha** : Yeah, I did appreciate that scene. His jeep broke down, right? Nice example of how modern interpretations can add subtext that would have been impossible for Shakespeare to have intentionally included.
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### Author:  [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2003, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/18 "2003-05-24T03:12:41Z")
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> \*Originally posted by dantheman \*
> \*\*Richard III was good, but when it was over I wished I’d rented Richard I and Richard II, you know? \*\*
If you liked this, you should really check out Richard IV: Back to the Throne.
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### Author:  [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/19 "2003-05-24T03:25:29Z")
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> \*Originally posted by Miller \*
> **You don’t see movies made out of the works of Milton or Kit Marlowe**
Well, Milton wasn’t a dramatist (pace _Samson Agonistes,_ a closet drama, and _Comus,_ which is a masque) but as far as Marlowe goes there’s one of [Doctor Faustus,](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0062898), and one of [Edward II](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0101798), though I haven’t seen either so I can’t comment on their quality. Though your point does hold, I suppose, in the main. (Conversely, you especially don’t see movies made out of the works of Ben Jonson – for that matter, it’s hard to find him in _bookstores_ these days.)
And one of the great things about the Loncraine-McKellen _Richard III_ is just how accessible it is to the uninitiated. You can actually find the screenplay at [Sir Ian’s official site](http://www.mckellen.com) – it details some of the steps taken to make it that way. A fascinating read…
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-ian-mckellen-has-performed-the-impossible/177112/20 "2003-05-24T05:55:42Z")
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> \*Originally posted by Miller \*
> \*\* Hell, **pugluvr** ’s husband got hooked watching _Richard III_, which is arguably Shakespeare’s most dense and convoluted work. I’ve read it twice and seen it performed at least a half dozen times, and I still wouldn’t trust myself to summarize the plot. \*\*
Richard is Mean, and Kills Everyone, and becomes King. Everyone is Sad. Then Henry Kills Richard and everyone is Happy.
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