# Sir Richard and Sir Barry, 2018 New Year's Honours **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 31, 2017, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621 "2017-12-31T08:54:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/1 "2017-12-31T08:54:45Z")
Ringo Starr, ex-Beatles drummer, and Barry Gibb of the Bee Gees have been selected as Knights Bachelor for 2018 as part of Queen Elizabeth II’s Honours List, which is released twice a year, at the start of the new year, and in June for Her Majesty’s birthday. Ringo joins his ex-band mate Sir Paul McCartney as a knight. > **[Paul McCartney congratulates Ringo Starr on being tapped as British knight](https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2017/12/30/ringo-starr-bee-gee-barry-gibb-tapped-british-knights/992123001/)** > > A Beatle and a Bee Gee are among the celebrated citizens who have been selected for knighthood and other awards given in the name of the monarch. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/2 "2017-12-31T14:12:58Z")
Sir Ringo. Love it. It’s sounds kinda like Bazinga, so now I hear Sheldon saying it ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/3 "2017-12-31T15:29:03Z")
I wish Ringo had turned down the badge from queenie but maybe it’s a generational thing. Barry Gibb? Do me a favour. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/4 "2017-12-31T16:35:43Z")
I thought the Beatles as a group were knighted in the 1960s. So is this a higher honour than that one was? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/5 "2017-12-31T16:49:08Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I wish Ringo had turned down the badge from queenie but maybe it’s a generational thing . For us Americans, can you elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/6 "2017-12-31T17:15:56Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I thought the Beatles as a group were knighted in the 1960s. So is this a higher honour than that one was? They were made Members of the [Order of the British Empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_British_Empire) in 1965. The order has five ranks, “member” being the lowest. The top two ranks indicate Knighthood, the bottom three ranks do not. The “Knight Bachelor” is technically a separate entity from the Order. When Paul was knighted in 1997, the other Beatles started calling him “Your Holiness”. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/7 "2017-12-31T17:48:49Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > For us Americans, can you elaborate? Accepting awards from the Queen is considered a tacit acceptance of the class system. Youngsters want people to tear down the ladder, not climb it. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/8 "2017-12-31T18:11:29Z")
Plenty of people say ‘thanks, but no thanks’, mostly a generation or more younger than these guys. Not the sort of thing most people want to make public out of respect for the woman. ---
**Author:** ![BlueMerle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@BlueMerle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueMerle)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/9 "2017-12-31T18:16:50Z")
Aren’t these honors only for citizens of the Commonwealth? If so, what’s the highest honor a non-citizen can be awarded? ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/10 "2017-12-31T18:43:22Z")
> [@BlueMerle](#): > > Aren’t these honors only for citizens of the Commonwealth? > > If so, what’s the highest honor a non-citizen can be awarded? AFAIK, yes, only Commonwealth citizens can receive “full” honours (spelled “the Commonwealth way”), although others can receive honorary knighthoods - General Norman Schwarzkopf received one in 1991. Note that honorary ones do not entitle the person to use the title “Sir.” ---
**Author:** ![BlueMerle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@BlueMerle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlueMerle)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/11 "2017-12-31T19:05:52Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > AFAIK, yes, only Commonwealth citizens can receive “full” honours (spelled “the Commonwealth way”), although others can receive honorary knighthoods - General Norman Schwarzkopf received one in 1991. **Note that honorary ones do not entitle the person to use the title “Sir.”** Interesting, thanks. As for the bolded, it’s a bit like kissing your sister imo… ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/12 "2017-12-31T19:28:46Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Plenty of people say ‘thanks, but no thanks’, mostly a generation or more younger than these guys. Not the sort of thing most people want to make public out of respect for the woman. Yeah. Wikipedia used to list people who refused honors, as a counter cultural statement. Then those people started accepting honors. Then Wikipedia figured – those people wanted a better honor, or an honor with more money (honorarium? or is that nonsense), or wanted an honor with less responsibilities, or – they just got old and no longer counter-cultural. Hey, its nice to be honored and recognized. IIRC, Ringo was critical, in the past, of Paul having suddenly found upper class respectability. Or maybe that was Kieth Richards talking about Mick Jagger? Seems like it, Kieth Richards doesn’t have any royal honors in his Wikipedia infobox. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/13 "2017-12-31T19:29:03Z")
> [@BlueMerle](#): > > Aren’t these honors only for citizens of the Commonwealth? > > If so, what’s the highest honor a non-citizen can be awarded? Ringo Starr and Barry Gibb are both British citizens, although Gibb does hold dual citizenship, having been naturalized as an American in 2009. Bono was granted an honorary knighthood in 2007. As an Irish citizen, his knighthood does not carry the honorific “Sir.” Bill Gates of Microsoft was also made an honorary knight in 2005. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/14 "2017-12-31T20:19:38Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > Yeah. Wikipedia used to list people who refused honors, as a counter cultural statement. They [still do.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_declined_a_British_honour) ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/15 "2017-12-31T23:24:02Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Plenty of people say ‘thanks, but no thanks’, mostly a generation or more younger than these guys. Not the sort of thing most people want to make public out of respect for the woman. Bowie turned one down, but he was a Duke anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/16 "2017-12-31T23:47:54Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > They [still do.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_declined_a_British_honour) OK. But try to understand, on this side of the pond, we don’t intuitively know what an OBE, KCMG, CMG, GMG etc mean. If you decline your CME and a decade later accept your OMG 🙂 , then I don’t know how that’s really refusing an honour. Except that it was working towards a different honour. > [@](#): > > Sir Winston Churchill, KG, OM, CH, TD, PC, PC (Can), FRS, politician and Prime Minister, was offered the Dukedom of London, I’d heard that the King wanted to give him the Royal Order of the Garter, but having lost the election, said he didn’t need the King to give him the Royal Garter, after his people had given him the royal order of the boot. But … urm … to me, he has many initials after his name, so he doesn’t appear to me to be an anti-orders statement. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/17 "2018-01-01T00:09:57Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > OK. But try to understand, on this side of the pond, we don’t intuitively know what an OBE, KCMG, CMG, GMG etc mean. If you decline your CME and a decade later accept your OMG 🙂 , then I don’t know how that’s really refusing an honour. Except that it was working towards a different honour. > > I’d heard that the King wanted to give him the Royal Order of the Garter, but having lost the election, said he didn’t need the King to give him the Royal Garter, after his people had given him the royal order of the boot. But … urm … to me, he has many initials after his name, so he doesn’t appear to me to be an anti-orders statement. Um, the “KG” stands for “Knight of the Garter”. It was a peerage (a seat in the House of Lords) that he turned down. The first time he refused it, it was because he wanted to remain eligible to run for a seat in the House of Commons, so he would have another shot at becoming Prime Minister. The second time he refused it, it was because his son Randolph had political ambitions, and inheriting a peerage would have nixed Randolph’s chances of becoming Prime Minister. As it turned out, Randolph could not get elected dog-catcher, and would have been better off with an inherited peerage. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/18 "2018-01-01T00:39:01Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > AFAIK, yes, only Commonwealth citizens can receive “full” honours (spelled “the Commonwealth way”), although others can receive honorary knighthoods - General Norman Schwarzkopf received one in 1991. Note that honorary ones do not entitle the person to use the title “Sir.” IIRC it’s only citizens of Commonwealth _realms_\* (ie countries where Elizabeth II is head of state) that are eligible for full knighthoods & damehoods; citizens of Commonwealth republics are in the same boat as non-Commonwealth citizens). \*Canadians are theoretically eligible for knighthoods (& peerages), but the sovereign traditionally refrains from granting any [titular](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_titles_debate) honours to Canadians. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/19 "2018-01-01T01:55:06Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > IIRC it’s only citizens of Commonwealth _realms_\* (ie countries where Elizabeth II is head of state) that are eligible for full knighthoods & damehoods; citizens of Commonwealth republics are in the same boat as non-Commonwealth citizens). Australia is a Commonwealth realm, but stopped using UK honours in 1975, establishing the [Order of Australia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Australia) instead. There was a Knight level of the OA but that was scrapped in 1983, briefly reinstated, then scrapped again. So, no Knighthoods for Australians, and it’s highly unlikely there ever will be again. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2018, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621/20 "2018-01-01T02:05:45Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Australia is a Commonwealth realm, but stopped using UK honours in 1975, establishing the [Order of Australia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Australia) instead. Although the states continued using UK honours for a while longer (sometime around 1990?), so there were a handful of new knights from Australia even after knighthoods were removed from the Order of Australia the first time. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sir-richard-and-sir-barry-2018-new-years-honours/805621.md?page=2)